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Old 03-25-2012, 07:27 PM   #1
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Sigh- now it won't start...

Finally picked up the little old lady from the RV Fix it place where they were checking out the electrical systems for us... drove it to the inspection station 30 miles away and back home with such a big grin on my face.... my mind thinking... I'm going camping, I'm going camping...
Well, there are a few things I needed to do, one was doing the tank purification... so I poured the bleach in and put the hose in and added water, let it set while I planted some onions... then when it sat an hour or so, I decided it was time to drive around the block and let her swish around a bit... so I did, got home, was parking her only I wanted to back in to practice and she died crosswise in our parking our parking lot area. Thinking she might have finally run out of gas since I have no way of telling that yet... we put a little gas in .... tried again, she cranks but won't catch, so hubby said... well you are kind of tipped to one side there, I'll go get more gas and we can try again... so I plant more onions while I wait and when he put more gas in, still no luck.
It's an '88 ford econoline fuel injected, so I'm pretty sure I didn't flood it when I was pushing hard on the gas to get up the incline backward...
Hubby thinks it will be more expensive to get it towed to the ford dealer to look at, than to call the RV repair fellas who do on site calls.
All I know is I'm frustrated... she runs so well...why won't she run! I went ahead and empitied the bleach water, but can't get the fresh water to run uphill the fill side is on the downhill side....so I can't rinse out my tank now either. ( I sure had to dig around and hunt to find the tank valve to empty the fresh water tank!, but I did that before I filled it...)
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:44 PM   #2
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i had the same problem with my rv when i planted onions too.i stopped planting onions and problem went away.weird or what!!
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:48 PM   #3
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i had the same problem with my rv when i planted onions too.i stopped planting onions and problem went away.weird or what!!
Yup... Onions... Happens every time.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:55 PM   #4
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When you turn the ignition key on can you hear the fuel pump running? Just a thought.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:14 PM   #5
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Don't know what a fuel pump would sound like when it's running. It sounds just like it should when am turning the key but it just won't catch.
Somehow the universe heard my thoughts about wanting to know the thing inside and out and be able to take care of it myself...and is giving me a few lessons here! they aren't free though.
(Oh, and I'm done for today planting onions and she still won't start......)
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:23 PM   #6
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Has the unit had a complete service recently? It may be as simple as a plugged fuel filter.
Turn the key to the run position, don't hit start, and listen for a humming noise. If all is quiet the fuel pump isn't pumping.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:30 PM   #7
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Ah ha! I learn something new everyday! I do hear a little noise when it is in the on but it only is almost a second long then stops with a quiet click sound.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:46 PM   #8
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I don't want to say for sure that the fuel pump is the problem but on the 84 class C we used to have we had the same issue. We replaced the pump and all was well. Ours was an external pump so it was a whole lot easier than dropping the tank. My understanding is the pump should run longer than a second.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:55 AM   #9
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Electric EFI pumps turn on and off based on a regulator and required pressure.So it isn't uncommon to hear the pump turn on for afew seconds and then turn off with the key just on on.That mean the regulator is working as it should.Find the test pressure valve to check with a fuel pressure test gauge what the fuel pressure is and if it is what is the spec for your rig.Also before that,carefully spray fuel into the EFI.If it runs while the primed fuel is there,you have a fuel delivery issue which could be either the fuel pump or fuel filter.Lastly-EFI flooded situations you do not floor board to clear.You need to press the peddle haft way only.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:07 AM   #10
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I'm not familiar with the older Ford chassis's, but I found this article online: Theres 2 pumps one in the tank, lift pump, and one in the chassis rail under the driver side. The one in the tank is cheap, the one in the rail is not. The one in the tank only produces low pressure to prime the main pump and if it is broken, may not cause that much of an issue except when starting. the one in the rail is a no-start if it fails. The idea is that the rail pump can supply high pressure for the injectors, so a fuel pressure test at the injector rail will determine which pump is playing up.

I do agree with performing a fuel pressure test, this is a quick test that can easily confirm if the pumps are working.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:49 AM   #11
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It may be that you still don't have enough fuel in the tank for the fuel pump to pick it up. To eliminate that possibility, you should put at least 5 gallons in it.

Running out of gas is very hard on the in-tank pump.

Have someone bend down and listen under the tank when you turn the key on. There should be a humming, electric motor sound for a few seconds, then it should quit. That pressurizes the system.

If you've done those two thing and it still doesn't start, you may have a dirty fuel filter, although usually those will let the engine at least start.

You can try starting it with some starting fluid, which is usually ether-based. Take off the air cleaner and spray some in the air intake. If the engine doesn't fire, it's not a fuel problem.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleamarketer View Post
Electric EFI pumps turn on and off based on a regulator and required pressure.So it isn't uncommon to hear the pump turn on for afew seconds and then turn off with the key just on on.That mean the regulator is working as it should.Find the test pressure valve to check with a fuel pressure test gauge what the fuel pressure is and if it is what is the spec for your rig.Also before that,carefully spray fuel into the EFI.If it runs while the primed fuel is there,you have a fuel delivery issue which could be either the fuel pump or fuel filter.Lastly-EFI flooded situations you do not floor board to clear.You need to press the peddle haft way only.
Where did you get this information?

The fuel pressure regulator does not turn off the pump.
when you rotate the key to the Run position, the ECM energizes the fuel pump relay, for a few seconds, to raise the pressure in the fuel rail, to aid starting. The fuel pressure regulator, is very mechanical in nature, where it uses a spring loaded diphragm on a steel plate over a tube. the fuel pressure that overcomes the spring pressure, escapes and returns to the tank. (this is only true for older system, as the new system do not return fuel to the tank from the engine side of the line, enter the EPA) Anyway, "Clear Flood" is a strategy, written into all factory fuel injection systems, (and some aftermarket too) since the mid 80's, when this stuff started to appear. "Clear Flood" is entered when, Engine RPM is at or below 350RPM and Throttle Posistion is over 95% or Full Throttle. It was engineered that way, because the people driving cars with carbs, learned it that way. The Actual RPM varies by manufacturer, but the point is, it's cranking speed not running speed.
Information is wonderful stuff, if it's accurate.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnebeater View Post
I'm not familiar with the older Ford chassis's, but I found this article online: Theres 2 pumps one in the tank, lift pump, and one in the chassis rail under the driver side. The one in the tank is cheap, the one in the rail is not. The one in the tank only produces low pressure to prime the main pump and if it is broken, may not cause that much of an issue except when starting. the one in the rail is a no-start if it fails. The idea is that the rail pump can supply high pressure for the injectors, so a fuel pressure test at the injector rail will determine which pump is playing up.

I do agree with performing a fuel pressure test, this is a quick test that can easily confirm if the pumps are working.
I totaly agree.
I would only add, that just putting your hand on the Rail pump, (which is just inside the frame rail, behind the LF tire, just under right about where you put your feet) When you have someone turn the key to run, you should be able to feel the pump running for a few seconds.
If not, try tapping on it with a small hammer, as someone turns the key to run, or even try to start it. If that brings it up you can at least move it to level ground. I would add, too, that since it quit on an incline, going the direction the fuel system wasn't designed for, it's good bet that it is, just out of fuel, or at least low enough to be missing the pickup tube at the angle it's sitting. Good Luck.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:35 PM   #14
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Well, it's at the mechanic's now. I just wish I could be there and watch what they do so I could learn. I'll never be a certified mechanic, but I do like to know the basics like changing tires, oil, air filters. My papa taught me those things when I learned to drive a car, but a big van is a different critter, and while I learned about carburetors from pestering pa with questions, he never worked on a fuel injected engine so I never learned anything about those. I'll be jumping for the phone on Monday when he calls to tell me what the deal is... but I think I already know if my intuition is correct.
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