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Old 04-07-2012, 07:11 AM   #85
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As far as the basics of how a carb works: Carburetor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as were did the gas go. Take some gas and pour it on concrete. Wait a short while and watch it disappear. It's called evaporation.

As far as pumping the accelerator pump when starting the engine. Called priming and allowing the choke linkage to engage. Funny thing about older stuff, it is not computer controlled so sometimes the user has to "do" something to make it work. Sort of like the choke cable or choke position (start) on a older lawn mower.

This is a known fact that many people here have expressed: Carburators require periodic rebuilding to clean out the bad stuff that accumulates in them over time. Rebuild you carburator.

If you need specific information about the carburator you have, then go back to my original post in this thread (page 4) and spend the $5 to get the manual that explains how it works.

Generic Holley 4180 information (basic variants are the same; Differences are jet sizes and linkage implementation)
How To Understand The Holley 4180 - Mustang Monthly

The Carburetor Shop's 4180C rebuild and modifications (Good info for reference but is oriented towards hot rodders.

Dave
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #86
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Chief, one of these days you're going to run out of things to Google for. We'll miss you though.
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Old 04-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #87
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If you haven't replaced the fuel filter take it off and blow threw it, if you can't blow threw it fuel can't get threw it.The way a carb works.You have a needle and seat which works as a shut off valve,The float is what determiners at what point it needs fuel.The gas in the float bowl is sucked out threw the jets into the ventures,which cause a low pressure area.The ventures excel orate the vacuum ,which increases the vacuum,and increases the amount of the fuel mixture.which in turn increases speed. If you have a float that sticks,needle has trash under under it ,or a float that has a hole in it,or has become porous and sinks. Al ways ck real close for vacuum leaks.low vacuum can cause a miss,put your hand over the top of the carb. if it idles up ck for lean mixture,take a can of WD40 spray around the intake .If engine speeds increase somewhere in that is a vacuum leak. Vacuum is critical of the operation of a carb.The wrong PVC valve can cause you yo pull your hair out. The needles out side the carb adjust the air and fuel mixture at an idle,how ever if they are to rich it will cause loss of gas mileage.But if you have vacuum leaks you will never get proper idle.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:45 PM   #88
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well, the camper's priority has rolled into 'today job', and i had at it. thanks for the help, support and patience. here's what i did and discovered.

i added a clear, see-thru filter next to the engine, between the 'y' connection and the fuel pressure regulator. i propped open the doghouse and saw that the filter bowl quickly filled to about 3/4 full as soon as i turned on the key, which is when fuel pump gets energized.

i took it for a spin around the block, about a mile total. 2nd time around the engine began to quit. i checked out the filter, and it was empty. ran like that the rest of the way home, at idle. guess there was just enough fuel getting thru to run slowly, but not enough to be seen in the bowl.

after backing the 80ft up the driveway, i shut it down. i tried the genny, which started ok.

after about 5 mins rest, i turned the key on without cranking, and the filter bowl filled right up. it was clear, no debris.

so, next up is what's preventing fuel from reaching the filter? this may be more difficult to locate since right now, everything is working as it should. there's no crud in the filter, and i would expect to see something there if i was looking at a blockage thing, right?

2 possibles: the fuel pump quits, either electrical or internal malfunction, or something in the tank shuts off the supply. i just don't think it's a line blockage at this point, at least not one due to small particles that would eventually flush into the filter and be seen readily.

i'll get back to y'all soonest i find something.... or don't....
am
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:14 PM   #89
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Get a coffee can, disconnect the fuel line before or after the filter and run a hose into the can. Turn the key on and see if you get a strong stream or just a trickle. You could have 60 pounds of pressure, but if the volume is not there, you have a blockage up stream. Is there still another filter before the one you installed?
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:35 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunner View Post
Get a coffee can, disconnect the fuel line before or after the filter and run a hose into the can. Turn the key on and see if you get a strong stream or just a trickle. You could have 60 pounds of pressure, but if the volume is not there, you have a blockage up stream. Is there still another filter before the one you installed?
On my RV there is a spin on fuel filter/water seperator right in front of the gas tank, don't recall if it is before or after the fuek pump, without crawling under there again.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:39 PM   #91
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more..

dunner, not to discount the value of your input, but if there's no gas visible in the filter i just installed, how is running the hose into a can going to tell me anything different?

just got back from a run... same thing. this time i had run a pair of wires from the pump + and - up to a dmm in the 'cockpit'. volts remains >12, so nothing's 'telling' the pump to shut down.

next, i wondered if tank was sucking all the air out due to some airway blockage, so when problem evident, i opened the gas cap... still nothing pumping into the filter bowl. not a vacuum problem there.

again, about 5-10 mins after i got home and shut it down, pump fills the bowl next time i key on.

this time around i'm hooking a vid cam up on the fuel pump and will watch and listen to see if pump quits running/vibrating when problem occurs.

question is, will an electrical fuel pump quit if the input gets blocked? if so, will it at least heat up a bit first? pump so far has remained cool to touch.

to answer your question, only other filter is the metal can that came with the pump that screws into the input of the pump. will repost in a few after cam tests.
bear with me, pls. and thanks. am
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #92
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The good thing is it isn't intermittent.I could be the pump that runs while cold,but stops once it heats up.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:08 PM   #93
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But it does fill the filter after some time, so maybe it is blocked closer to the pump.
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:26 PM   #94
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You might have crud in the fuel tank that clogs the screen on the pick-up. When the pump shuts down, the crud falls away from the screen and allows gas to flow again. Look for small particles of rust in the filter to see if tank needs cleaning.
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:10 PM   #95
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coolpics

it's always fun to use technology, huh?

cam idea worked and satisfied another part of the puzzle/problem. cam mounted on fuel pump with clippy-clamp and the pump buzz easily heard up front on the monitor. when problem occurs, pump is still running. i can hear it. therefore the pump is not at fault at this point.

here's a rehash, ok?
camper runs a while then acts like runs out of gas. replaced fuel pressure regulator because it i had no idea what the thing was until i replaced it, it was cheap, and might have been at fault. not really a great move, but o well.

next, added clear fuel filter by engine. was able to see gas was there, then it wasn't. move in right direction.

next, ran set of wires from pump +/- to a meter up front. found pump not losing power during failure. ok procedure.

next, just now, clamped wireless vid cam to pump to listen to pump sounds. when failure occurs, pump is still running, altho no gas is getting into the filter bowl up front. good move also. informative, and more fun than rebuilding a carb.

now, it sure looks like blockage either in tank or in pump filter. i put in new rubber lines when pump put in year ago. pump has a metal canister filter at the input. i'll pull that first and check for crap, because it's easiest.

if the tank is dirty, which i would not doubt, i'm not sure what to do. i do not want to drop the tank! i can pump out the 40 or so gals into gas cans, and i can remove the 7/16 lines into the tank from below. but there's no 4" access plate to get a rag into for cleanout. i guess yo all knew that, huh?

just wondering... heard a lot about dirty sox in the fuel tank. how do i know if my tank has the sox? i have two 7/16" fuel lines at the lower front of the tank, one for outflow, one for inflow as recirculated. there aren't any other access places i can see.

so, what's next set of recommendations?

thanks again,
am
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:18 PM   #96
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Either crud in the fuel tank as BFlinn181 said or you have a rubber fuel line that cracked is sucking air. Just had to redo my entire fuel system due to the exact same issue you are having (clear fuel filter goes empty after a short drive). I am fairly sure it was a cracked rubber lines that connect the tank pick tubes to the steel fuel lines.

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Old 04-18-2012, 07:31 PM   #97
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Forgive me if I repeat something as I did not read all the posts.
If there is an electric pump in the tank this could be the issue. Not only can they stop working when warmed up but I have had the hoses and o-rings on the fuel pump module (the whole assembly) leak into the tank. An in-tank pump probably has a safety device to prevent it continuing to run if in a crash. Sometimes it is as simple as an oil pressure switch on the engine, sometimes it is a crash sensitive device located elsewhere. The Police Crown Vics had one in the trunk that would trip if you ran into a parking bumper to hard.
If there is no in-tank pump the fuel pick up in the tank and hoses before an external pump may be cracked and allowing air to enter the lines, which makes the fuel flow dimish or stop. This can be checked with a hand held vac pump hooked with the brake bleeder container in line to the fuel line at the front of the coach. No vac, bad lines.
A float can be sticking in the carb or be saturated with fuel. Have had this condition happen on various engines and they will usually idle and run for a bit, then either stall or have no power. The no power comes from an over fuel condition because the float sinks and allows the fuel to overflow into the throats of the carb. Running an engine with the air cleaner off is risky but this will allow you to see if the fuel is dumping out the top of the carb into the throats. Have a fire extinguisher handy.

Once when working fo Cummins Diesel we had a customers truck that would run then stall whenever. We found a cigar butt in the fuel tank that would float around and sometimes plug the fuel stand pipe!
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:32 PM   #98
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The term sock is normally used for the pick-up fuel filter.
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