Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Vintage RV's
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-03-2014, 11:55 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
4K-Ranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Tombstone, AZ
Posts: 16
Upgrade transmission?

Not sure that it is even possible, but someone out there may know.
Could an old 3 speed be replaced with a newer overdrive transmission on an '85 ford 460? And if possible what would be involved?

Just an idea...
__________________

__________________
1986 Class C Fleetwood Tioga Arrow
4K-Ranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-04-2014, 12:31 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 14,970
I'm not sure on the Ford applications, how the O/drive is controlled , could be a computer involved, that's the problem on Dodge applications.
The other thing to be aware of , is rear end gear ratio, many 3 spd. automatic equipped rigs ran a fairly low # ratio, in the 3.21, 3.50 range , when they went to the O/D trans they changed, rear end ratios to 4;10, 4.30 to get better low end performance, and made up for it with 30% overdrive, so engine RPM at cruise speed was lower. Putting an O/D trans in a unit with the wrong rear end ratio, could end up with a unit that won't stay in overdrive.
__________________

__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2014, 02:30 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 167
You'd be better off seeing a trans shop and asking a service manager about a OD unit for your type of transmission. They make aftermarket OD units just for this purpose.
__________________
JaycoEagle10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 02:36 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 12
There are ways to adapt late model OD automatics to your 460. You could even cross breed it to a GM unit..but, it isn't cheap.
If you are going to keep this rig for a long time then the best route is probably a Gear Vendor Underdrive/Overdrive unit. Still not cheap, but cheaper than a swap.
Do a search for Gear Vendors...
__________________
Arch Stanton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 05:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 383
Arch is right on the money. Gear Vendors makes an overdrive unit that bolts to the back end of your present trans. You then have your driveshaft shortened. Have it balanced and new u-joints installed while you're at it. It's very reasonable to have a good driveline shop do that. A bit of wiring to put the overdrive controller up on the dash. Off you go. I put one on my '86 Corvette. Love it. I beat the heck out of it regularly. It's going to cost you probably a bit over $2k. So you've gotta do some math to see if it's going to save you any money with lower rpm's and maybe less fuel used. But don't forget to consider less interior noise.
__________________
www.bobwinsor.com
MN is home for now.
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 05:50 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 383
Woops, I think they're prices have gone up a bit since I bought mine. I just did some looking on their web site and it looks like a unit for you're rv would be about $3400. Don't forget that it shouldn't lose a ton of value for you in case you don't keep the rv forever. But one and put it in. Then when you get rid of your Tioga take the o/d out and put it in your next rig. Or sell it on ebay.
__________________
www.bobwinsor.com
MN is home for now.
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2014, 05:52 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Bob86ZZ4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 383
Another thing to consider is Gear Vendors customer service. When I put mine in I called them with a few questions. The owner of the company talked to me on the phone and gave me his personal cell phone number and was very helpful.
__________________
www.bobwinsor.com
MN is home for now.
Bob86ZZ4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 01:08 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
4K-Ranch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Tombstone, AZ
Posts: 16
Thanks for the info guys. Yes, I have looked at Gear Vendors and their unit looks great, but with the price plus the installation, it would probably be worth more than my rig, and take a very long time to save me the $4000.

My idea was to get a used tranny (with no electronics) from a junk yard and adapt it, maybe not quite so expensive but I don't know what all would be involved with that. Drive shaft adjustment...shifter linkage...maybe differential. Maybe I'll look for a good transmission guy to ask.
__________________
1986 Class C Fleetwood Tioga Arrow
4K-Ranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 01:03 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Daveinet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 361
The most value for your trouble is getting a lock up TC. Without that, you end up with some problems. As the engine turns slower from the OD, it makes it turn so slow, the TC slips and you loose efficiency. When I did my engine conversion, I changed my gear ratio at the same time. Since I was running a laptop to tune my fuel injection, I could see what was happening in real time. The TC was still slipping till I hit about 70 mph. I could watch my mileage, and my mileage was the same at 60 as it was at 70.

An RV has a little bit higher stall speed, so the engine can get up to an RPM where it has some power to get rolling. That means at cruise, you need a higher RPM as well, so the TC is not slipping. Modern engines get around this by electronically controlled TC lockup. I am not specifically familiar with Ford, I do know with GM, one can buy the electronics for about 600 bucks. Teh conversion for GM is straight forward.
__________________
'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD FMCA F298817
502 w/Howell/GM ECM/Edelbrock MPFI,Thorley's & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd, KoniFSD
Daveinet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 03:06 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 167
Daveinet, the Ford C-6 3-sp Trans is gonna be 100x stronger than today's OD transmissions.
Also the older trans TC's did NOT lockup like the electronic TC now.

I feel that an aftermarket OD unit would benefit much better than converting to today's newer OD Transmissions due to strength issues of todays transmissions aren't built as strong, and with lots of electronics in a transmission, the more crap that can go wrong.

Only Transmission I would even consider for a conversion, would be an Allison from the Chevrolet Diesel models since 4K-Ranch does have a big block that can handle it.
__________________
JaycoEagle10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 05:03 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaycoEagle10 View Post
Daveinet, the Ford C-6 3-sp Trans is gonna be 100x stronger than today's OD transmissions.
Also the older trans TC's did NOT lockup like the electronic TC now.

I feel that an aftermarket OD unit would benefit much better than converting to today's newer OD Transmissions due to strength issues of todays transmissions aren't built as strong, and with lots of electronics in a transmission, the more crap that can go wrong.

Only Transmission I would even consider for a conversion, would be an Allison from the Chevrolet Diesel models since 4K-Ranch does have a big block that can handle it.
Not overly familiar with some GM transmissions but I do know Ford transmissions and find this statement to be false. Sure the C6 is a strong transmission but in order to make it hold up for higher HP and torque it needs to be fully built. Transmissions like the 5R110W and 6R140 transmissions are rated from 30,000 for the 5R and 40K for the 6R. They are very robust and 1/4 of their components in either transmission would not even fit in the case of a C6. Those transmissions are rock solid and live for hundreds of thousands of miles in work trucks every day since 2003. The Allison transmission is good but im not overly impressed with it. In fact it has the lowest input power rating than any current truck transmission on the market. That is the biggest reason why the Duramax is still at a lower torque number than the rest. That diesel is capable of much more.

The easiest conversion to a 460 would be a build E4OD. The 4R100 is a built up version of the E4OD however I don't believe the bell housing would bolt up. The internals should be an easy swap. A wiring harness, some transmission controller would be needed.
__________________
jamesrxx951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 05:24 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Daveinet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaycoEagle10 View Post
Daveinet,...Also the older trans TC's did NOT lockup like the electronic TC now.
I know, that is why I was bringing up the limitation.
Quote:
I feel that an aftermarket OD unit would benefit much better than converting to today's newer OD Transmissions due to strength issues of todays transmissions aren't built as strong, and with lots of electronics in a transmission, the more crap that can go wrong.
But that does not address TC slip, which will be made worse by the external OD. About the only way to get around it would be to get a really low stall speed on the TC and then use the over/under of the gear vendors to cover the lack of slip off the line.

The other option that could be the wiser and cheaper choice would be to go to a 4 speed stick shift. Then you can get off the line, but still have the low RPM at cruise with no slip. Manual transmissions are lighter, which should help efficiency as well.
__________________
'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD FMCA F298817
502 w/Howell/GM ECM/Edelbrock MPFI,Thorley's & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd, KoniFSD
Daveinet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 07:19 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 167
But Jamesrxx951, the OP isn't looking for a transmission that will handle high horsepower and able to handle the abuse of 4g launches for 1/4 mile runs. The C6 will do it, but like you say, it'll need rebuilding with the right components. That's not whats needed here.
I say a good aftermarket OD unit is best for this situation and leave the stock transmission alone. A flip of a switch, or pull of a cable to activate/deactivate the OD. OK, maybe a new, better torque convertor
By keeping it simple, there's less problems to encounter.

I would be seeing a Transmission Shop to have questions answered, as I don't know if there's any big block electronic transmissions available nowadays to handle these older tugs that don't have ECU's and all the wiring hookups.
__________________
JaycoEagle10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 09:15 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaycoEagle10 View Post
But Jamesrxx951, the OP isn't looking for a transmission that will handle high horsepower and able to handle the abuse of 4g launches for 1/4 mile runs. The C6 will do it, but like you say, it'll need rebuilding with the right components. That's not whats needed here.
I say a good aftermarket OD unit is best for this situation and leave the stock transmission alone. A flip of a switch, or pull of a cable to activate/deactivate the OD. OK, maybe a new, better torque convertor
By keeping it simple, there's less problems to encounter.

I would be seeing a Transmission Shop to have questions answered, as I don't know if there's any big block electronic transmissions available nowadays to handle these older tugs that don't have ECU's and all the wiring hookups.
correct he is not looking at drag racing however he is looking for longevity and a 4 speed transmission to bolt up to his 460. A built up E4OD to a 4R100 spec would bolt up to his engine because the FI 460's use the E4OD transmission. A basic transmission controller would be needed because that is a very simple transmission for shift control. It just uses 2 shift solenoids for all 4 speeds, EPC and torque converter lock up. For it to work a few simple inputs like what was used for the IDI diesels (in fact that system would likely work great) because it used RPM, vehicle speed, baro and I think that was it. There may have been a throttle position but im not 100% sure. The old IDI diesels also use the E4OD transmission and the engine used no electronics at all.
__________________

__________________
jamesrxx951 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
transmission, upgrade



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dead Allison MD3060 Transmission Shifter wheato22 Allison Transmission Forum 8 08-11-2015 09:11 PM
F53 Transmission Issue alanjan Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 18 09-22-2014 11:52 AM
Transmission overfill worried about damage Airstream14 Allison Transmission Forum 11 09-16-2014 08:20 AM
Metal Filings in Allison MD3066 Transmission mgsander Allison Transmission Forum 10 08-30-2014 03:47 PM
Ford 4R100 Transmission Question/Problem/Need Advice winnie32v Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 9 07-07-2014 05:54 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.