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Old 09-01-2015, 09:19 AM   #1
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Waag Injection...A laughing matter?

Okay Vintage owners and gurus. Our new (to us) 1984 Vogue II has a Waag Injection installed.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,6641151&hl=en

Remove or not to remove. Joke or unnecessary? I've got the original paper work on it. Our neighbor, who is a mechanic, has never seen such a thing. He is suggesting we just pull it out. However, if this thing really works to improve fuel economy, I'm all for it. Perhaps it is obsolete with the use of Ethanol?

...inquiring minds want to know.

(I was going to add pics of the paperwork but I can't figure out the photo add thing, it seems to want a URL.)
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Old 09-01-2015, 03:41 PM   #2
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In the later years of carburetor use, there were all sorts of gadgets added to increase mileage, reduce emissions, and so forth. Trying to regulate gas/air mixture using jets and vacuum, controlling timing with vacuum and mechanical advance were very imprecise. Your WAAG system was one of those add ons that folks believed would help. It was also intended to reduce carbon build up in the engine, which was a by-product of limitations of carbureted engines.

When fuel injection and spark advance was controlled by computers, engines were finally able adjust to variable conditions and make things more efficient.

In the case of the WAAG, the addition of the vacuum controlled 'injection' of the alcohol/water mix also required adjusting the timing and changing the carburetor jets.
If you remove the WAAG system, those items should be adjusted back to stock.

In reading about this system, I find mention of adding an 'inhibitor' each time the tank is filled with alcohol/water, and cautions not to run it without the inhibitor. What are you using for inhibitor? Also mention was made of increasing your inspection of vacuum hoses because the alcohol/water mix would degrade them.

According to various articles and sources, the increase in mileage was very little, the increase in emissions was significant. Wonder what the payback period was? (When gas savings covered purchase, installation, and maintenance) It was only to be installed by trained mechanics, who do you have maintaining yours?

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/devices/511806.pdf

To add photos, you can either upload the photos to your storage at iRV2 or use an outside photo upload service like Photobucket. Once your photo is uploaded, then copy the URL of the photo's address and paste it in with the photo icon. (yellow box, mountain and moon)
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:14 PM   #3
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I currently have a SNOW Water/Methanol injection system on my 88 Gulfstream 32' motorhome for a slightly different reason. I rebuilt my 460 Ford carbureted engine for more horsepower and was worried about pre-ignition / detonation under heavy load (uphill) conditions. These systems are used in hot rod turbo applications currently for the same reasons. My system is triggered buy extremely low vacuum under wide open throttle conditions. I don't think the systems that continually run worked out all that good due to the volume of mix required and the introduction of fuel injection and computer controls.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:07 AM   #4
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My Dad had a similar system installed on his 68 Ply wagon with 318 V8 and was to use alcohol and water to help with pre- ignition also kept the pistons cleaner. You can take a fry pan that is gunky heat it up and toss water on it and everything loosens up (clean).
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Old 09-06-2015, 07:35 AM   #5
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I installed a similar system by Edelbrock on my 1972 mustang back in the 80's. Alcohol carries with it oxygen molecules that can be used to help burn the fuel, also the water turning to steam inside the combustion cycle increases horsepower somewhat. Water expands 1200 times its volume when it turns to steam, helping to push the piston down. And as others have said, the cooling effect is like raising the octane, allowing the use of advanced ignition timing for even more power. Should only be used under near WOT (wide open throttle) conditions.
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Old 09-06-2015, 07:41 AM   #6
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Here is a picture and write-up of the one I used.

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...valuation.aspx

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Old 09-06-2015, 07:48 AM   #7
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This was not just for tinkerers and teenagers, real military hardware also used this technology....


"Piston engined petrol military aircraft utilized water injection technology prior to World War II in order to increase takeoff power. This was used so that heavily-laden fighters could take off from shorter runways, climb faster, and quickly reach high altitudes to intercept enemy bomber formations. Some fighter aircraft also used water injection to allow higher boost in short bursts during dogfights"


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Old 09-06-2015, 01:37 PM   #8
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I was going to mention the airplanes during WW-II my Dad told me a lot of stories about those old planes and the radial engines, he flew a TBM. What I do recall on Dad's 68 Ply was a fairly good sized glass bottle with a couple tubes in it and from there the tubes ran ove to the air cleaner, he would fill it up once a week .I have sometimes wondered if the injection system could be used on the engines but it would probably screw up the computers.
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Old 09-06-2015, 02:09 PM   #9
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Their are systems for just about any application available. Mine is for carbureted systems and is triggered by a vacuum sensor and uses a single injector in the base of the intake manifold.
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Old 09-06-2015, 11:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasdad1 View Post
This was not just for tinkerers and teenagers, real military hardware also used this technology....


"Piston engined petrol military aircraft utilized water injection technology prior to World War II in order to increase takeoff power. This was used so that heavily-laden fighters could take off from shorter runways, climb faster, and quickly reach high altitudes to intercept enemy bomber formations. Some fighter aircraft also used water injection to allow higher boost in short bursts during dogfights"


Attachment 106020
I am wondering if this could be made to work on a 71 302 Ford engine in my class-3 I have this feeling that the engine is going to rattle on hard pulls.
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