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Old 11-11-2009, 08:17 PM   #15
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Gary, that is a sweet looking Winnie.

Some of the items on RV have gotten better, but the manufacturers are cutting corners in basic construction. I doubt if you will be seeing many of the current crop of RVs on the road in 20 years.

Ken
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:31 AM   #16
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In my opinion, three specific "innovations" have and continue to be the source of many problems associated with today's motorhomes.

The first is slide-outs. Great idea but an endless source of problems. To this day, my wife says a small prayer whenever I pull in the slides. And she's not even remotely religious.

The second are leveling systems. Again, nice to have but with all the leaks, broken jacks, busted solenoid valves, snapped springs, and so on, are we better off? Likewise, compressed air shocks are great when they work but when they don't, get ready to reach deep.

Lastly, diesel pushers continue to be one of the most desirable and yet one of the most complicated designs ever used in a vehicle. Once again, diesel pushers are terrific technology but if you look at the multi-year breakdown thread on rv.net, it's clear that diesels have their share of problems.

If I had it to do all over again, it would be mighty tempting to look for an entry-level gasser with no slides and no levelers. You know...just like the ones they sold back in 1988.

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Old 11-12-2009, 08:45 AM   #17
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In my opinion, three specific "innovations" have and continue to be the source of many problems associated with today's motorhomes.

The first is slide-outs. Great idea but an endless source of problems. To this day, my wife says a small prayer whenever I pull in the slides. And she's not even remotely religious.

The second are leveling systems. Again, nice to have but with all the leaks, broken jacks, busted solenoid valves, snapped springs, and so on, are we better off? Likewise, compressed air shocks are great when they work but when they don't, get ready to reach deep.

Lastly, diesel pushers continue to be one of the most desirable and yet one of the most complicated designs ever used in a vehicle. Once again, diesel pushers are terrific technology but if you look at the multi-year breakdown thread on rv.net, it's clear that diesels have their share of problems.

If I had it to do all over again, it would be mighty tempting to look for an entry-level gasser with no slides and no levelers. You know...just like the ones they sold back in 1988.

Jack

my 85 is looking better all the time.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:23 AM   #18
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We just bought our 7th winnie. 1st was a 1974 brave, than a 79 82 86 96 03 and now an 2010. With the older rigs you used 1 compartment to carry spare parts. 82 chevy had vaporlock problems,had to add a electric fuel pump back at the fuel tank. 86 had 2 fuel tanks and a vapor recovery system that would spill out raw fuel on the ground. The early 86 and the 85 chevy engines had serious exhaust manifold issues. on the 82 they used general tires and owners were getting flat tires on a [seriously] regular basis. I personally had 2 flats on a 700 mi trip to Forest City, most of us bit the bullet and went to a different brand neither winny or general would admit responsibility. the chevy trannys would overheat on a hill climb and spew out fluid on the exhaust system and create a smoke screen [great for a getaway] I could go on and on. Engine belts out of alignment etc blah blah . We took the 03 to Alaska twice including all the bad roads and the old WH and Allison combo were flawless. I guess we were lucky as I didn't have the brake problem. I would say they don't make em like they used to and that's a good thing!
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:46 AM   #19
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Lightbulb Basic MH

when we bought our "new" MH 2 years ago, we just did not know what manufacturer, model etc to buy. We ended up with the entry model from Newmar.....a 2008 BAY STAR 2901. The last 1 1/2 year we looked around for a "bigger" and "better" MH. We could not make up our mind, of course some sales people helped us!!! so we stuck with the "BS" (BAY STAR)... We slowly fell in love with this little unit..., we will drive it until we come across our "DREAM MACHINE"!!!

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Old 11-12-2009, 09:51 AM   #20
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All are man-made machines with imperfect designs. Possibly a million parts all interacting and all together to make the whole. Just like the computer on your desk or any mechanical machine, the moving parts are most likely to fail first. The Space Shuttle today is light years from the Apollo; yet it is now obsolete. I was recently at a Cummins authorized service center and saw various new motors on display. They are so amazing to look at. When you think of what it takes to move 20,30,40 or 50,000 + lbs of mass thousands and thousands of miles flawlessly in hostile enviroments.
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:11 PM   #21
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If I had it to do all over again, it would be mighty tempting to look for an entry-level gasser with no slides and no levelers. You know...just like the ones they sold back in 1988.

Jack


EXACTLY why we were looking for the one seen over there in my avatar - we WANTED something basic - but decent - like what we ended up with - LOTS of storage space, ruggedly built for wilderness camping - in places the hi-$$$$ rigs wouldn't DREAM of trying. Places where TOTAL self containment is an absolute MUST - and campsites are often WAY too narrow for any slides - and too short for anything longer than our 27 footer. We wanted a rig, that if something failed, didn't require we fly in some technical expert from the factory to fix - duct tape, baling wire, a pair of pliers, and a large hammer will take care of 99% of usual failures...

NO, our situation, was where we were looking for a rugged and reliable backwoods rig to tow, and launch our fishing boat - and then provide comforts nearly as good as those back home. SOME of those probably ARE available in a comparable 100K current model - but WAY too impractical, complex, refined, and fancy for our needs.

POINT?

Defining "BETTER" is definitely a different thing for different folks - the new, fancy rig with all the trimmings is surely best for those commonly using parks that wouldn't even let ours in! By the same token those nifty $250K bulge-mobiles, would be WAYYyy out of place where ours DOES fit in.

SO, the focus upon long-term rugged reliability is the main one that reaches across both extremes - and all things being equal as in regards to the technological improvements - AND potential hazards in remote area usage - I think I'd still take the rugged simplicity of what we ended up with - especially at the price we paid - over the glitz and glitter of the admittedly fancier stuff.

This is truly a "different strokes for different folks" topic, bound to provide varied countering opinions!
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:48 PM   #22
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Well my 95 is neither older or newer, but I do think the electronics in today's rigs are more capable and extensive and will provide significant frustrations in the future.

I have experienced since the 10 yr old mark that Circuit Boards tend to fail and need repair or replacing. ICC light switch, sat dome antenna, freshwater fill PC board, Dometic refer PC board, Atwood Water Heater board, and the cd player have all failed. Some with bizarre side effects/symptoms.

A mechanical engine, air leveling and suspension, bus chassis, and no slideout/electric hydraulic pump systems makes the rig very dependable and still comfortable.
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:18 PM   #23
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Well my 95 is neither older or newer, but I do think the electronics in today's rigs are more capable and extensive and will provide significant frustrations in the future.

I have experienced since the 10 yr old mark that Circuit Boards tend to fail and need repair or replacing. ICC light switch, sat dome antenna, freshwater fill PC board, Dometic refer PC board, Atwood Water Heater board, and the cd player have all failed. Some with bizarre side effects/symptoms.

A mechanical engine, air leveling and suspension, bus chassis, and no slideout/electric hydraulic pump systems makes the rig very dependable and still comfortable.
It's quite possible - if not likely - that at some future point, a 2 cent Taiwan resistor failure on a $2000 Engine Control Module (ECM) will leave the RV owner just as stranded along some lonely stretch of road - or remote campsite, as throwing a rod or a failed tranny in an older rig.

Wonder how many here still have any still-operational TV, radio or computer stuff that's over 10 years old...

Not knocking the technology, merely pointing out the inherent weaknesses and liabilities. We have late model vehicles too - and while I *used* to do all my own mechanical repairs and troubleshooting, the new stuff is way beyond me - and MANY of the factory authorized "technicians", as well.

AH, but the old '88 gasser MH?

Right down MY alley!
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:33 PM   #24
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What scares me about all of the electronic control is how rapidly these units are phased out. In 20 years, how well will you do getting a replacement board for main engine/transmission computer....It dies...your vehicle dies.

With an carb fed engine, you rebuilt the carb with a minimum of parts. The same goes for all of the other computer controlled gadgets.

Ken
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:54 PM   #25
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One thing we noticed as we shopped around for an older and relatively short MH to pull our fishing boat to relatively local wilderness-type areas, was the near total LACK of reasonable maintenance to preserve and protect the owner's investment as revealed in the sad condition of MANY older RV's.

Sure, lots of RV failures and weaknesses are the result of poor design and materials - but I find it hard to understand those who DO pay "a year's salary" for a nice RV - and then neglect it and essentially abandon it between uses - then complain when problems arise.

This may seem a bit off topic - but actually is a main ingredient when it comes to comparing materials and workmanship on old - or new - Rv's...
I have to agree.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:00 PM   #26
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What scares me about all of the electronic control is how rapidly these units are phased out. In 20 years, how well will you do getting a replacement board for main engine/transmission computer....It dies...your vehicle dies.
A current example?

MD300MH Allison No Keypad Power

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Old 11-13-2009, 01:42 AM   #27
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Points....Don't miss them at all.....
Dual points were even worse'errrrrrr

Jim
I'm still point and plug driven, the only difference is I have a very limited little computer that does electronic advance instead of vacuum and a 2 bbl electronically fired carburetor. The original died a while back, a rebuilt replacement set me back $170. A replacement computer for alot of the newer cars will set you back several THOUSAND dollars if its out of warranty.

Wouldn't take too much to swap this old girl back to a Rochester 4bbl and a vacuum advance, Dodge reused the same engine block, chassis and running gear for almost 30 years with their V8s. There's very little different between a 1973 5.9L V8 and the 1992 that's in there now.

So far the only problematic electronic bits is the servo on the cruise control died earlier this year and I can't find a replacement unit. I do wish it was more like the cruise on the 85 Suburban we have, it was a giant vacuum bladder instead of this little motor driven hunk of junk.
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Old 11-13-2009, 06:08 AM   #28
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Wouldn't take too much to swap this old girl back to a Rochester 4bbl and a vacuum advance, Dodge reused the same engine block, chassis and running gear for almost 30 years with their V8s. There's very little different between a 1973 5.9L V8 and the 1992 that's in there now.
The new "magnum" v8s are not leaps and bounds better but enough to make a difference. Im talking stock vs stock.
The transmissions... thats another story.
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