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Old 05-26-2012, 07:06 PM   #1
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What Next Again

Not Again, Another Issue rears it's head
WE are belt sanding the floor to even everything out between the old existing floor and the new floor when I noticed a few wood screw heads were getting shiny. I grabbed my small hammer drill and gave them a turn down to sink them a little more when my wife said what is this. She was pointing to a trail of water coming under a wall. I thought she spilled her drink. But water was coming out under the wall pretty fast. We ran for towlels and started to wonder where the hell it was coming from. I still have not connected the toilet supply line or the vanity faucett lines and my first thought was the water pump was on, but no it was off and the tank is empty anyway. what the?????
I climbed on the roof thinking the AC was the culpret but that was dry except for a small trail of condensate running over the side far from where we were.
I got down and looked under the rv and saw water dripping in several places around the big black tank, and running down the dump line, but how can that be, all the tanks are empty, I went to the other side and took the cap off the dump line and water poured out, I opened the grey valve and it also poured for a long time. I went back and opened the black valve and another few gallons of water came out the dump line. How the heck does all that happen and yes the leak stopped, still have no idea where it was leaking from but it was coming out from under my brand new bathroom wall.
I raised the bed to look at the water tank, it appears to be empty, these three valves are in three lines but only one goes to the water pump, another comes from the water pump to a tee and the other must be a drain.
I don't know what to make of this new situation
We are thinking to plug the three open lines in the bathroom, put some water in the water tank and turn the pump on to pressurize the lines and see if the leak comes back. I know there is a tee in the cold water line under the toilet and I hate to rip up that brand new floor.
Is it possible for the waste tanks to get over filled and back up like that?
Where the hell could it possibly come from?
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:09 PM   #2
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If your black tank overfills, it will just come up in the toilet bowl (unless you have a leak at the toilet flange). The gray tank will back up into your shower.

Have you got any clue where the water in the tanks came from? Could there have been water frozen in the tanks when they were drained last? (still doesn't explain the water in the wall.)

You didn't have city water hooked up, did you?
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:23 PM   #3
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Black tanks usually have a vent stack that terminates on the roof. should that line be broken or not terminate above the roof an overfilled tank may dump water out the vent stack and find it';s way into the walls.
In fact an acquaintance bought a new Fleetwood MH and in the process of flushing the black tank he neglected to open the drain valve and left the flush water running. The vent stack had been cut off too short......below the roof by about 1/4". Water overflowed and drained back into the coach.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:39 PM   #4
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Black tanks usually have a vent stack that terminates on the roof. should that line be broken or not terminate above the roof an overfilled tank may dump water out the vent stack and find it';s way into the walls.
In fact an acquaintance bought a new Fleetwood MH and in the process of flushing the black tank he neglected to open the drain valve and left the flush water running. The vent stack had been cut off too short......below the roof by about 1/4". Water overflowed and drained back into the coach.
I cannot get the water tank to drain, if you look closely at the picture you can see a waterline mark on the side of the tank, my wife was inside watching that as I turned the hose on and she said that was actual water and she could see the fresh water gurgling in.
We plugged all the lines, turned all faucetts to off and turned the water pump on and in a few seconds water came running out under the wall again, turned it off, cleaned up the water.
We first pressurized the hot water line with air in the bathroom sink line and had air and water spurt out of the hot water tub faucett and the hot water kitchen faucett
Did the same with the cold water line and we could hear air under the floor but nothing coming from the faucetts.

I think I have a broken cold water line.

My Questions now are
Is it possible to change a water line without tearing up the floor?

Those valves in the picture, how do they work? and are they 1/4 turn ball valves or screw to open/close valves??

Along the floor on both sides of the bedroom where the outiside wall meets the floor there is a structure running length wise at a 45 degree angle between the wall and floor covered in carpet, is that where the plumbing lines are running??,
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:32 PM   #5
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I think I have a broken cold water line.

My Questions now are
Is it possible to change a water line without tearing up the floor?

Those valves in the picture, how do they work? and are they 1/4 turn ball valves or screw to open/close valves??

Along the floor on both sides of the bedroom where the outiside wall meets the floor there is a structure running length wise at a 45 degree angle between the wall and floor covered in carpet, is that where the plumbing lines are running??,
Its possible you could access the broken pipe or fitting from a cupboard or your basement- only you can tell that- but yep, you are going to have to tear out something.

IF its coming from under the wall, why are you thinking of tearing out the floor- am I missing something? What is (supposed to be) on the wall we're discussing? Toilet, vanity, shower?

No idea what those angled things are in the bedroom, (probably wiring or plumbing chases) but you can see the fresh water tank and the pump, right? There will be one line leaving the pump that will later split to go to the galley and to the bathroom. Where does that line from the pump go? under one of those chases? under both?

Do your water lines run through your basement or above the floor?
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Old 05-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #6
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About those valves- you'll simply have to trace them out.

Several possibilities; one could be upstream of the pump, and meant to suck in antifreeze with the pump while winterizing, and double as a fresh water drain.

One could be a downstream drain.

One could be a valve to turn when you want to fill the fresh water tank from the city water connection, rather than gravity fill.

One could be a valve you have to turn to isolate the FW tank from city water.

**one thought- is the city water fill anywhere near the wall where the water is coming from? One possibility is the water pump is pumping backwards up the city water fill, and leaking into the wall there. Have you had the city water hooked up?
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:42 PM   #7
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About those valves- you'll simply have to trace them out.

Several possibilities; one could be upstream of the pump, and meant to suck in antifreeze with the pump while winterizing, and double as a fresh water drain.

One could be a downstream drain.

One could be a valve to turn when you want to fill the fresh water tank from the city water connection, rather than gravity fill.

One could be a valve you have to turn to isolate the FW tank from city water.

**one thought- is the city water fill anywhere near the wall where the water is coming from? One possibility is the water pump is pumping backwards up the city water fill, and leaking into the wall there. Have you had the city water hooked up?
We listened all over the place with a stethescope and could hear water running under the toilet louder then anywhere else. I removed one of the floor tiles behind the toilet,it was the one the water pipe for the toilet was coming up through. Got out my handy dandy harbor frieght multi tool and cut a hole around that pipe just big enough to peer down thru and damn, the TEE under the toilet was broken off and the supply line was wide open. So when the pump was on if flooded the area under there and it came out wherever it could.
Went to Home depot got a nylon tee and some new clamps, enlarged that hole just enough to get my hand down and pull the lines up a bit, cut out the tee, warmed up those 20 year old plastic pipes with a heat gun and installed the new tee.
We just got done pressure testing it all, no leaks and it took some time to get all the air out of the system, and the water pump cycles on and off when we open a faucett.
In Hindseight, I should have tested the system long before I closed everything up, did not test it with city water yet, the rv is parked too far from the spigot.
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:01 PM   #8
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Just FYI, the slickest way to patch that old gray RV plumbing is with the Sharkbite (or similar) fittings.

I've been able to reach under the cabinets, cut and install a new fitting with one hand without ripping everything up.

Expensive, but oh so worth it.
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Old 05-27-2012, 04:56 PM   #9
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We listened all over the place with a stethescope and could hear water running under the toilet louder then anywhere else. I removed one of the floor tiles behind the toilet,it was the one the water pipe for the toilet was coming up through. Got out my handy dandy harbor frieght multi tool and cut a hole around that pipe just big enough to peer down thru and damn, the TEE under the toilet was broken off and the supply line was wide open. So when the pump was on if flooded the area under there and it came out wherever it could.
Went to Home depot got a nylon tee and some new clamps, enlarged that hole just enough to get my hand down and pull the lines up a bit, cut out the tee, warmed up those 20 year old plastic pipes with a heat gun and installed the new tee.
We just got done pressure testing it all, no leaks and it took some time to get all the air out of the system, and the water pump cycles on and off when we open a faucett.
In Hindseight, I should have tested the system long before I closed everything up, did not test it with city water yet, the rv is parked too far from the spigot.
Almost forgot, here is a pic of the broken Tee
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:29 PM   #10
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Glad you found it and got it fixed.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #11
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Glad you found it and got it fixed.
I was convinced in my mind the break was where the line runs over and behind the rear wheels, or between the toilet and the rear bedroom, my wife said it was probably where the toilet line tee's off the vanity supply line, she was right and I am not gonna hear the end of it.
It will be easy for me to make a removable access panel in the floor behind the toilet, as a matter of fact it will be so easy I am surprised I did not do that when I rebuilt the whole bathroom.
When I get to it I will post pictures, Right now I have to leave it open and let it all dry out.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:00 PM   #12
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I was convinced in my mind the break was where the line runs over and behind the rear wheels, or between the toilet and the rear bedroom, my wife said it was probably where the toilet line tee's off the vanity supply line, she was right and I am not gonna hear the end of it.
It will be easy for me to make a removable access panel in the floor behind the toilet, as a matter of fact it will be so easy I am surprised I did not do that when I rebuilt the whole bathroom.
When I get to it I will post pictures, Right now I have to leave it open and let it all dry out.
Why'd you tell her where the problem is? Clearcut case for "Lying is OK, Sometimes".
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:21 PM   #13
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Why'd you tell her where the problem is? Clearcut case for "Lying is OK, Sometimes".
I am trying to understand how my fresh water drain system works and why it will not drain
Re Those valves in the picture, I am assuming when the handle is lined up with the pipe the valve is open and when it is across the pipe it is closed, correct?
In the next picture are three small 1/2 inch hoses coming out of a big clump of foam, which is right under the fresh water tank and just above the rear edge of the fuel tank.
When I open any or all of the valves above them nothing comes out of those hoses, I tried to blow air back up thru them with no luck.
Is it possible some critters made a home in there so tough water or air cannot get past?
Any ideas how to clear those lines???
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:26 PM   #14
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I have valves like that on mine, you pull them up to open they do not turn.
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