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Old 08-12-2005, 03:52 PM   #1
Stan Birch is offline
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Newfoundland - The Evening News

Season off to a slow start for local campgrounds


Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - "With tourism numbers down across the province, local campground owners say they are feeling the effects. Cathy Kocken, the owner of Birchwood Campgrounds in Lyons Brook, said that the season got off to a slow start."

"Other campgrounds are seeing less business. Dennis Martin, the co-owner of D&B campground in Black Point said that his numbers have been down this year."

Soooo . . what's really happening in Newfoundland?

In September 2004, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) provided RVers with a heads-up with regard to the new me-too anti-RVer (cf. Nova Scotia) legislation, confining RVers to local campgrounds after sunset:


Federation wants RVs out of mall lots

Sep 8 2004 03:22 PM NDT

CORNER BROOK "” A business lobby group doesn't like Recreational Vehicles camping in mall parking lots and wants the provincial government to enforce its regulations prohibiting the practice.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business is concerned that RV tour groups head to the malls rather than go to nearby campgrounds.

Bradley George, The federation's provincial director, says provincial tourist establishment regulations don't allow that. Yet, he says, the big box stores across the province are soliciting RV tour groups to use their parking lots.

George says the bigger outlets even send out maps of their locations to RV groups across Canada and the United States.

"Enforcement is a big part of this, and I know my associates in other provinces, CFIB has been chasing down municipalities and police forces to try to get them to enforce the legislation," he says.

George has requested a meeting with Tourism Minister Paul Shelley to discuss the issue.

http://stjohns.cbc.ca/regional/servl...f_rvs_20040908

No camping in mall lots: Shelley

Sep 14 2004 12:21 PM NDT

ST. JOHN'S "” The province's tourism minister says he's going to enforce the rules against camping in mall parking lots.

Some tourism operators have complained that big-box stores have been offering space in their lots to RV owners.

(From Sept. 8, 2004: Federation wants RVs out of mall lots)

But Tourism Minister Paul Shelley says only licensed campgrounds can do that, and he's going to crack down on unlicensed lots.

"We want to let them know that as a department in this province, we encourage people to camp in RV campsites, and I'm going to do any way that I can to do that," he says.

Shelley says his department will gather information from RV park owners about the business they feel they're losing.

He says he may have to meet with business owners to emphasize what the law says, and the fact that camping on parking lots hurts local business.

http://stjohns.cbc.ca/regional/servl...f_rvs_20040913

And when you smell a skunk, that's usually a strong indication that there IS a skunk! Enter the Rvers nemisis: the CFIB (Canadian Federation of Independent Business); and organization dedicated to keeping Canadian small businesses small!:

CANADIAN FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS
388 Kenmount Road
St. John's, NL A1B 3R2

September 15, 2004

The Honourable Paul Shelley,
M.H.A. Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation
P.O. Box 8700
St. John's, NL A1B 4J6

Dear Minister Shelley:

On behalf of the province's private campground owners who are members of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, I would like to thank you, Ms. Mundon and Mr. Janes for taking the time to meet with me on September 13, 2004.

I believe that our discussion of both RV camping in parking lots and unlicensed provincial campgrounds was very constructive. And, I am certain that the solutions we generated during our meeting will not only serve the best interests of private campground owners, but also those of RV owners – key tourists and contributors to the provincial economy.

I have already been in contact with CFIB members in the camping industry who, with their provincial colleagues, are compiling the names of suspected unlicensed campgrounds. I will forward this list to you for follow-up by your government's inspectors.

I appreciate your haste in responding to the concerns of our private campground members and would be pleased to discuss this issue further, should you or your officials have any questions.

Yours truly,

Bradley George Director of Provincial Affairs


Soooo . . . no big surprise that RVers are staying away from Newfoundland this year in droves! News spreads quickly in the RVing community. When we were in St. John's in 2003, we called *every* campground in the St. John's area, and there wasn't a single vacant campsite to be found anywhere! So what are the options?

Sort of sad to see Newfies going in this "RV Unfriendly" direction, when American states are starting to go in the exact opposite direction. While Newfoundland, along with Nova Scotia, is directing their political muscle toward discouraging RV tourism with their "RV Unfriendly" stance; realizing the ecomonic value of RV tourism, and the need to be seen as "RV Friendly", there is a whole new movement gaining a foothold in the USA in an effort to funnel RV tourist dollars back in their direction. To that end, Oregon, Louisiana, Florida and Tennessee have recently passed state-wide legislation declaring their states as "RV Friendly"!

Wonder how long it will take the Maritimes to awaken to the new world of RV tourism? : -( The concept of forcing RVers to buy something they neither want nor need, doesn't have a hope of augmenting private commercial campground owners' coffers. Instead, for a Province that already costs $600 to $700 for the ferry to get there, just to say hello; RVers will tend to merely avoid the Province in it's entirety.

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Old 08-12-2005, 03:52 PM   #2
Stan Birch is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Newfoundland - The Evening News

Season off to a slow start for local campgrounds


Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - "With tourism numbers down across the province, local campground owners say they are feeling the effects. Cathy Kocken, the owner of Birchwood Campgrounds in Lyons Brook, said that the season got off to a slow start."

"Other campgrounds are seeing less business. Dennis Martin, the co-owner of D&B campground in Black Point said that his numbers have been down this year."

Soooo . . what's really happening in Newfoundland?

In September 2004, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) provided RVers with a heads-up with regard to the new me-too anti-RVer (cf. Nova Scotia) legislation, confining RVers to local campgrounds after sunset:


Federation wants RVs out of mall lots

Sep 8 2004 03:22 PM NDT

CORNER BROOK "” A business lobby group doesn't like Recreational Vehicles camping in mall parking lots and wants the provincial government to enforce its regulations prohibiting the practice.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business is concerned that RV tour groups head to the malls rather than go to nearby campgrounds.

Bradley George, The federation's provincial director, says provincial tourist establishment regulations don't allow that. Yet, he says, the big box stores across the province are soliciting RV tour groups to use their parking lots.

George says the bigger outlets even send out maps of their locations to RV groups across Canada and the United States.

"Enforcement is a big part of this, and I know my associates in other provinces, CFIB has been chasing down municipalities and police forces to try to get them to enforce the legislation," he says.

George has requested a meeting with Tourism Minister Paul Shelley to discuss the issue.

http://stjohns.cbc.ca/regional/servl...f_rvs_20040908

No camping in mall lots: Shelley

Sep 14 2004 12:21 PM NDT

ST. JOHN'S "” The province's tourism minister says he's going to enforce the rules against camping in mall parking lots.

Some tourism operators have complained that big-box stores have been offering space in their lots to RV owners.

(From Sept. 8, 2004: Federation wants RVs out of mall lots)

But Tourism Minister Paul Shelley says only licensed campgrounds can do that, and he's going to crack down on unlicensed lots.

"We want to let them know that as a department in this province, we encourage people to camp in RV campsites, and I'm going to do any way that I can to do that," he says.

Shelley says his department will gather information from RV park owners about the business they feel they're losing.

He says he may have to meet with business owners to emphasize what the law says, and the fact that camping on parking lots hurts local business.

http://stjohns.cbc.ca/regional/servl...f_rvs_20040913

And when you smell a skunk, that's usually a strong indication that there IS a skunk! Enter the Rvers nemisis: the CFIB (Canadian Federation of Independent Business); and organization dedicated to keeping Canadian small businesses small!:

CANADIAN FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS
388 Kenmount Road
St. John's, NL A1B 3R2

September 15, 2004

The Honourable Paul Shelley,
M.H.A. Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation
P.O. Box 8700
St. John's, NL A1B 4J6

Dear Minister Shelley:

On behalf of the province's private campground owners who are members of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, I would like to thank you, Ms. Mundon and Mr. Janes for taking the time to meet with me on September 13, 2004.

I believe that our discussion of both RV camping in parking lots and unlicensed provincial campgrounds was very constructive. And, I am certain that the solutions we generated during our meeting will not only serve the best interests of private campground owners, but also those of RV owners – key tourists and contributors to the provincial economy.

I have already been in contact with CFIB members in the camping industry who, with their provincial colleagues, are compiling the names of suspected unlicensed campgrounds. I will forward this list to you for follow-up by your government's inspectors.

I appreciate your haste in responding to the concerns of our private campground members and would be pleased to discuss this issue further, should you or your officials have any questions.

Yours truly,

Bradley George Director of Provincial Affairs


Soooo . . . no big surprise that RVers are staying away from Newfoundland this year in droves! News spreads quickly in the RVing community. When we were in St. John's in 2003, we called *every* campground in the St. John's area, and there wasn't a single vacant campsite to be found anywhere! So what are the options?

Sort of sad to see Newfies going in this "RV Unfriendly" direction, when American states are starting to go in the exact opposite direction. While Newfoundland, along with Nova Scotia, is directing their political muscle toward discouraging RV tourism with their "RV Unfriendly" stance; realizing the ecomonic value of RV tourism, and the need to be seen as "RV Friendly", there is a whole new movement gaining a foothold in the USA in an effort to funnel RV tourist dollars back in their direction. To that end, Oregon, Louisiana, Florida and Tennessee have recently passed state-wide legislation declaring their states as "RV Friendly"!

Wonder how long it will take the Maritimes to awaken to the new world of RV tourism? : -( The concept of forcing RVers to buy something they neither want nor need, doesn't have a hope of augmenting private commercial campground owners' coffers. Instead, for a Province that already costs $600 to $700 for the ferry to get there, just to say hello; RVers will tend to merely avoid the Province in it's entirety.

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Old 08-13-2005, 05:46 PM   #3
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I wander if the campground owners have consulted other business owners in their area when conducting this lobbying? I wander how amuzement parks or other tourist attractions would think of this lobby?

George
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Old 08-13-2005, 06:18 PM   #4
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The concept of forcing RVers to buy something they neither want nor need,... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well I wouldn't put it quite like that, I'm sure nobody wants to "be required" to go to campgrounds and pay to camp, but there's a lot of us that like campgrounds where there is a modecum of something else to see except a Walmart (or whatever) sign. I'd much rather listen to the wolves/coyotes howl or the waves lapping on shore, than listen to the buzzing of a neon sign. Buy the motorhome, expect to pay the fee. Or maybe we should just go to Georges or Joes et al and "hang out" (not really camp)
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Old 08-16-2005, 09:39 AM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erich:
Well I wouldn't put it quite like that . . .
I'd much rather listen to the wolves/coyotes howl or the waves lapping on shore, than listen to the buzzing of a neon sign. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
While you might prefer to hear wolves howl; when is the last time you ever actually heard so much as a single wolf howl anywhere near a private commercial campground; or even near a provincial park campground for that matter?? In over thirty years of RVing and camping, I can't recall a single instance of ever hearing a wolf howl while parked in any sort of populated public campground?? These are the kind of places wolves entirely avoid; their survival is dependant upon that attribute.

While wolves tend to avoid any kind of human-occupied territory. If you really want to hear wolves howl, then Algonquin Park is prolly the best option. All you have to do is strap on a 45 lb. backpack and invade their territory!

And when you invade wolf-territory, you can be reasonably assured that wolf packs will keep a very close eye on you; and continuously howl their observations and caveats to packs miles away!

While the wolves are continuously checking out territorial invaders; it's rather routine to hear them howling to remote packs from less than a mere hundred yards away from our campfire!
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Old 08-16-2005, 12:23 PM   #6
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Ahhhhh, I love it when the wolves take over a sensitive subject like Walmart camping.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If I were a campground owner, I'd be screaming bloody murder at the town fathers who allow parking lot camping for more than one evening.

Any RVer might fall into an emergency situation that would require an overnight stay and I have no problem with that.

But to set up for extended stays? Remember, the campground owner has fixed costs that occur no matter if one or 200 RV's show up. One of those costs is taxes. Elected officials who have realized this have put their foot down. Otherwise, the campground owners will be asking for lower taxes to compensate. It's already happening in several areas across the country.

Walmart's intent was never to have RVrs camping out in their parking lot for extended stays. They were community minded enough to offer a free service for overnighters that has morphed into one that now takes advantage of Walmart's generosity.

Escapee's is so upset about the bad image it's giving RVrs that they have a letter on their website you can copy and put into the windshield of the extended stayers.

Dave George
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Old 08-16-2005, 04:07 PM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stan Birch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erich:
Well I wouldn't put it quite like that . . .
I'd much rather listen to the wolves/coyotes howl or the waves lapping on shore, than listen to the buzzing of a neon sign. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
While you might prefer to hear wolves howl; when is the last time you ever actually heard so much as a single wolf howl anywhere near a private commercial campground; or even near a provincial park campground for that matter?? In over thirty years of RVing and camping, I can't recall a single instance of ever hearing a wolf howl while parked in any sort of populated public campground?? These are the kind of places wolves entirely avoid; their survival is dependant upon that attribute.

While wolves tend to avoid any kind of human-occupied territory. If you B]really[/B] want to hear wolves howl, then Algonquin Park is prolly the best option. All you have to do is strap on a 45 lb. backpack and invade their territory!

And when you invade wolf-territory, you can be reasonably assured that wolf packs will keep a very close eye on you; and continuously howl their observations and caveats to packs miles away!

While the wolves are continuously checking out territorial invaders; it's rather routine to hear them howling to remote packs from less than a mere hundred yards away from our campfire! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stan...... I would hazard a guess that they are telling their friends to come have a look at one of their brothers in sheeps clothing..
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:41 AM   #8
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& if you don't know it already, I will tell you all again, whatever you say in a forum probably gets back to they who run government.

Earlier this summer, when we had full staff at CBC, CBC ran alternative viewpoints on this topic. They included voice mail from Newfoundlanders and visitors, plus quotes from a number of forums!!!!!!

Just remember what you say is public.

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Old 08-17-2005, 05:51 AM   #9
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For anyone who hasn't yet completed the Nova Scotia RV Parking Ban Survey at:

http://www.geocities.com/cornwaab/

Andrew Cornwall is a Nova Scotia economist who is preparing a report on the economic implications of the Parking Ban. His report, when published, could have a significant effect upon the future of RVing, both in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. So far, the Ministry of Tourism is only getting the one-sided viewpoint of the CFIB lobbyists.

The survey will only be available for a few more days.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:02 AM   #10
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Inaccurate again Stan.

Please, go read my post at CS. They are getting feedback from quite a few concerned sources, many from individuals!!!!!

No doubt I will try to correct the balance and the timeliness of the information available to members, when I can go do rv.net too.

Please re-read my post here re. CBC. I think I said that information and concerns are being expressed by members of the general public and the rving public to many sources.

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Old 08-27-2005, 03:07 PM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stan Birch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erich:
Well I wouldn't put it quite like that . . .
I'd much rather listen to the wolves/coyotes howl or the waves lapping on shore, than listen to the buzzing of a neon sign. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
While you might prefer to hear wolves howl; when is the last time you ever actually heard so much as a single wolf howl anywhere near a private commercial campground; or even near a provincial park campground for that matter?? In over thirty years of RVing and camping, I can't recall a single instance of ever hearing a wolf howl while parked in any sort of populated public campground?? These are the kind of places wolves entirely avoid; their survival is dependant upon that attribute.

While wolves tend to avoid any kind of human-occupied territory. If you really want to hear wolves howl, then Algonquin Park is prolly the best option. All you have to do is strap on a 45 lb. backpack and invade their territory!

And when you invade wolf-territory, you can be reasonably assured that wolf packs will keep a very close eye on you; and continuously howl their observations and caveats to packs miles away!

While the wolves are continuously checking out territorial invaders; it's rather routine to hear them howling to remote packs from less than a mere hundred yards away from our campfire! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I camp at a place called Vail Pt, located on a CF Base between Meaford and Owen Sound, right on the Bay. It's a "remote" site, no water/power and there are wolves, coyotes, bunnies and hares, wild turkey and a pile of deer, hoot owls, turkey vultures, a bunch of drunks on weekends, but nothing like the howl to make your hair stand up.

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