Wal-Mart stamps out camping (Nova Scotia)

[WilleyB]

From this morning's Halifax Herald.

http://www.herald.ns.ca/Business/9001087.html

"Wal-Mart stamps out camping
Provincial law prompts retailer to post signs telling RVers to sleep elsewhere
By PATRICIA LAUNT"

After 45 years of lobbying the provincial government, Wal Mart on it's own has caved in to the the efforts of the lobby groups.

The law is a part of the properties act therefore does not come under the criminal jurisdictions and in itself is not enforcible by the police unless a land owner makes a complaint. Then the trespasser would only be asked to move on, by the police, as it is not a criminal offence comitted the RV'er moves on.

[WilleyB]

From this morning's Halifax Herald.

http://www.herald.ns.ca/Business/9001087.html

"Wal-Mart stamps out camping
Provincial law prompts retailer to post signs telling RVers to sleep elsewhere
By PATRICIA LAUNT"

After 45 years of lobbying the provincial government, Wal Mart on it's own has caved in to the the efforts of the lobby groups.

The law is a part of the properties act therefore does not come under the criminal jurisdictions and in itself is not enforcible by the police unless a land owner makes a complaint. Then the trespasser would only be asked to move on, by the police, as it is not a criminal offence comitted the RV'er moves on.

[Half Dimes]

This move is really no surprise. The folks that have abused WM's hospitality make it bad for everyone else. Here's a quote from the article that WilleyB referenced:

"But Ms. MacDonald said there's a big difference between RV owners who stop in parking lots to catch a few hours' sleep and those who open up their canopies and set out their lawn chairs."

That about says it. I think Walmart intended their parking lots for overnight rest stops (and shopping for supplies, I'm sure). Instead, a segment of camping folks use the parking lot like a campground. In Whitehorse, YT, earlier this summer, the Walmart was full of RVs with slides and awnings deployed and towables left without tow vehicles. All of this with a campground down the road offering free dry camping.

With this behavior by a few, all campers will eventually be deprived of a safe harbor when traveling. If Walmart doesn't do it, local government probably will, as has already happened in a number of places in the states.

[brad03ca]

I agree with you on this one Dave.
While I have only ever stayed at Wally World once(CornorBrook) I was sure glad I was able to. I do prefer the security of a local C/G, but with some late night travels, this option was much welcomed.

[FC Ontario]

Just a note to inform that most if not all the Walmarts here in Canada are not open 24 hours a day like in the US. Its more likely one could be shopping if the stores were actually open, but this is not the case.
JM2CW

[WilleyB]

OH! Oh! more clarification needed. Where to begin.
Quoting our canadian Wal-Mart GM.
Wal-Mart Canada is more concerned about being a good a corporate citizen than about losing revenue, Mr. Deschenes said. Yes and Mickey Mouse will be the next President of the USA. 'nuff said.
First of all here is a general manager in another province, who either has no idea of what is what in Nova Scotia or has an ulterior motive behind this action.
To set the record straight: Consider, that of the 15 Wal-Mart stores located in Nova Scotia, most are in shopping centers which Wal-Mart does not own or control. The associated parking lots are under the control of the mall management. There is only one store that I know of, located in Truro, where Wal-Mart owns the lot, however in this case the Town of Truro has a bylaw forbidding parking overnight in RV's. The no overnight parking signs you see in the news article have been there for years. put there by the mall management, not by Wal-Mart therefore there was no need for the G.M. to make any statement.
As for the average person in Nova Scotia, like myself, our concerns are the same as everyone else's, the best value for our $$$. Therefore the average Nova Scotian has little or no interest whether someone parks his/her RV overnight in a parking lot or not. Also we consider a good corporate citizen to be a company who contributes to the community.(enough said) I live here, so that will not stop me from shopping at the Wal-Mart close by, nor will it change the shopping habits of the local population who basically could care less about RV's or parking lots.
So why has Wal-Mart jumped into a fray that they are not directly a party of, and an issue that most Nova Scotians could care less about. Enter new guy on the block "Loblaw's Super Value Stores"
Now they (Wal-Mart) have competition. Super Value Stores are located on their own properties. The one close by here, doesn't have any "No Parking Signs" in fact that's where I purchased most of pots pans and dishes for my RV, A large grocery chain now in direct competition with Wal-Mart, LOL doesn't get any better than that. I'm not saying they're any better of a corporate citizen, but hey a $ is a $

The news story tells very little and is very slanted to point that the RV'er is in fact a violater, but this is so far from the truth that it could be considered ridiculous. The law being discussed is one that REGULATES Camp Ground Operators " NOT THE RV'ers", So in fact you can park an RV overnight on Province House property and unless it is a "tow away zone" the worst that can happen, is you will be asked to move on. Now non compliance with such a request from the Police could land you in trouble.
Campground Owners Of Nova Scotia "C.O.A.N.S." and Tourist Industry Of Nova Scotia "T.I.A.N.S." are using a poorly worded portion of their own regulating laws to make it appear that the RV'er is doing something wrong when in fact they are not.
To cut to the chase: The law stated in the article belongs in the Properties Act which is not part of the criminal code nor is it enforced by the Police. However should the property Owner complain to the police, they can act on it, ask you to move on to elsewhere, if you caused damage then make a police report. Damages would be a civil matter for the courts.
That is the very short version, I'm not a lawyer but I'd have no problem with this one in the courts.

[Skip298]

Thanks for the clarification.....I cannot speak for your Province..In Ontario it comes under the Property tresspass act.. and in order for the police to act there must be IN WRITING a letter requesting the police to enforce that provincial law.....If the property owner asks you to leave then of course you have too or he calls the police to force you off..Most coppers dont bat an eye if they see you parked overnight in a mall or whatever..If anything they will cruise by to check out your rig..and maybe chat about it.. the big thing in Ontario now is the private security that works in the malls to keep the local teenagers from destroying the place..they have there own rules and some of these guys are way over zealous about their duties........thanks for the informative update willeyb

[Novi]

I certainly have to thank the guys who have taken the time to look up or into these laws or regulations. I do not have much knowledge of this issue with Wal-Mart in Nova Scotia. And if I recall right didn't New Brunswick do the same thing last year? What are the RVer's who travel in the "off" season suppose to do? Are the campgrounds open year round in Nova Scotia? Do the RVer's who live in these affected areas put their RV's away when the campgrounds close? What if you want to go south during the winter? Do they drive like " H " to get out of these provinces since they can't legally stop anywhere for the night? I use my MH right into early Dec. and while I do not use Walmarts I do use other areas because nearly all campgrounds are closed at that time of year. I am also aware that when a Fair or Carnival comes to town the workers stay in RV's on site, like a mall parking lot. Does this mean they cannot do this either? They will have to go to closed campgrounds?

[brad03ca]

Some very valid points Novi. If we travel in the Maritimes in the fall, the CG's are closed...where can one stay??
I'm sure these provinces could use tourist dollars well into the fall, or early spring!!

[WilleyB]

Hi Novi, hope this is of some help

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And if I recall right didn't New Brunswick do the same thing last year? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No that didn't happen, the tourist and camp grounds tried to get the same as in NS, however the Premier "Bernard Lord" of NB stated that RV'ers were welcome in NB and if NS didn't want them New Brunswick did.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> What are the RVer's who travel in the "off" season suppose to do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please remember that the law applies to the regulation of camp grounds Not RV'sand the regulation is part of the properties Act which is not enforced by the Police, however if a property owner asks you to move, or the police ask you to move on do so without complaint they are only doing their job because of a complaint from the property owner. Please note Youare not breaking any law it is not a criminal activity
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are the campgrounds open year round in Nova Scotia? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it is a relativly short season, late Spring to Fall normally
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Do the RVer's who live in these affected areas put their RV's away when the campgrounds close? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That I really can't answer, I know I won't until the snow flies. My next run will be in Aug. and I'll do my touring in New Brunswick.
There are truck stops and rest areas without the signs so go to a remote area of the lot and catch your 40 winks. If you're visiting a relative, just park in their driveway. Several truck stops have dump stations (no charge)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What if you want to go south during the winter? Do they drive like " H " to get out of these provinces since they can't legally stop anywhere for the night? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again it has to be emphesized the RV'er is doing nothing wrong by parking in an area that is not posted as such, the law states it is the land owner at fault, so again if you are asked to mosey along, thank them for the time you spent there and move along.

BTW like NB, P.E.I. allows boondocking also.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am also aware that when a Fair or Carnival comes to town the workers stay in RV's on site </div></BLOCKQUOTE> This one I like, I wondered some time back why their RV's were on an adjacent lot, LOL guess I have my answer now.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">in order for the police to act there must be IN WRITING a letter requesting the police to enforce that provincial law.....If the property owner asks you to leave then of course you have too or he calls the police to force you off..Most coppers dont bat an eye if they see you parked overnight in a mall or whatever..If anything they will cruise by to check out your rig..and maybe chat about it.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Skip the law might require writing here also, but in the best interests of all, the officer most likely would just visit the rig, tell the RV'r there was a complaint by the property owner, and that it would be best to move elsewhere, heck he might even suggest an acceptable location.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If we travel in the Maritimes in the fall, the CG's are closed...where can one stay??
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi Brad, if you have friends or relatives stay on their properties or boondock where there isn't any "No Camping or Parking Overnight" signs. Some of the Malls in NS have security personel like Skip describes but you could try it anyway. As above in PEI or NB, you can boondock to your hearts content

[Novi]

Hi WilleyB, I did not know New Brunswick had decided not to go that route, all I recalled was the reaction of Rvers last year. You have provided some good info, thanks.

[brad03ca]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">No that didn't happen, the tourist and camp grounds tried to get the same as in NS, however the Premier "Bernard Lord" of NB stated that RV'ers were welcome in NB and if NS didn't want them New Brunswick did. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Premier actually looking after the well being of his Province. I don't know how much N.S. tourism is off, But it seems they would be down .

The majority of travellers wouldn't be staying in WalMart lots, but the fact is, the province has given the sense of being RV unfriendly.

I say good for N.B and PEI. Canada, especially Maritime Canada and NL need all the tourist dollars they can get. We know the price of fuel won't be drawing the crowds in......

[WilleyB]

Oh! my what an embarrising question
Hi Brad, since COANS and TIANS decided to wage war on the RV'ers NS has been losing about 10,000 RV's per year since 2000. They dropped from 100,000 in 2002 to 73,000 in 2005. This year will be a lot worse because of the border problems and the fuel costs.

[Skip298]

When the stats come in and show the loss of the tourists trade dollars..The people that are pushing for these bylaws will bring those two points up....the price of gas and the border problems..they wont even come close to mentionning that the province is considered to be RV UNfriendly by the mobile tourists..in the long run these same groups will starve themselves out...