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Old 12-30-2010, 06:28 AM   #1
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AC freon loss repair little help please

The center AC on my 04 Beaver has lost its freon. Shop told me all other componets are fine. They do not do repairs to units??? I checked with dealer it was purchased from (2000 miles away) and was told the put in fitting so freon can be added to unit all the time (and fix leak). My question is where can I take coach to have this done? Can a auto or home AC repair shop do it? Thanks in advance for any advise.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:30 AM   #2
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Air Repair

A home repair man can recharge your roof ac.

We had one repaired and recharged for $125 last summer.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:45 AM   #3
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A shop specializing in HVAC should be able to do the work and check for leakage. I would not trust stop leak, the system is sealed and does not have hoses ec! I accidentally put a hole in a window unit last summer (adapter to be used with our Teardrop) condenser coil,
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:25 PM   #4
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No stop leak and no clamp type saddle valves. The system will need a temporary clamp on valve to clear and recover any refrigerant. Next they need to add Schrader valves by soldering one in the compressor suction and one in the compressor discharge line. While soldering, they need a slow nitrogen purge on the system to keep the inside of the lines from oxidizing.

After this, they need to pressure the system and find any leaks and repair them. Once all of the leaks are repaired, the system is pulled into a deep vacuum to get the air and moisture out. The system vacuum is broken with R-22 and the system is re charged. It should not take the shop over 2 hours (maybe 3) to complete the repairs.

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Old 12-30-2010, 03:09 PM   #5
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I use these 'piercing valves' all the time on fridges, freezers, window AC's, etc.. Your local HVAC shop should have some. $10 or less...

BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve : APWagner Appliance Parts Source Marcone Proline Parts
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:01 PM   #6
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The piercing or clamp type valves are a temporary fix. It is not a matter of if they leak, but when they will leak....they will leak. It is best to do it right rather than a patch job and have to keep adding refrigerant.

Ken
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:00 PM   #7
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Thats true, of course.. though I havent had one leak yet in 4 years or so. The coils themselves are another matter however

But, for a temp fix (few years) on an older system, they are just the ticket.
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:21 AM   #8
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Wow, thank you all for the great info. Have a safe and Happy New Year everyone!!
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:19 AM   #9
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Self piercing valves usually do leak, then again vibration work hardens the tubing/joints creating leaks also-I like to pull the system down and sweep with nitrogen but in all honesty its not necessary unless the system has been open for a while. I don't but many will put a little refrigerant through to clear things out, dimitius (sp?) releases are not illegal though many, including myself, think that the recovery mandates are silly ESPECIALLY with the new cfc 'free' alternatives-think about it.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYING BUTCH View Post
The center AC on my 04 Beaver has lost its freon. Shop told me all other componets are fine. They do not do repairs to units??? I checked with dealer it was purchased from (2000 miles away) and was told the put in fitting so freon can be added to unit all the time (and fix leak). My question is where can I take coach to have this done? Can a auto or home AC repair shop do it? Thanks in advance for any advise.

Advice, yes. Put an adapter on and add Freon if you want to DESTROY THE COMPRESOR.

There is no such thing as a "freon leak". It is a "FREON AND REFRIGERANT OIL " leak.

ANY sealed system leak MUST be repaired by:

1.) finding and fixing the leak, NOT adding sealant or dyes that interfere with heat exchange and lead to compressor overheating.
2.) evacuating the system a/o flush, new dryer
3.) pull a vacuum and leak test
4.) re-oil
5.) recharge.


I have a 95 S-10 toad that lost a compressor due to leaking several times and not being re-oiled. I took the compressor off after refusing to let a shop recharge it, and found about 1/4 OUNCE of oil was all that was in the compressor. Empty.

Shops LOVE the repeat business of throwing a pound of freon in, charging 200 a year, then getting the compressor change in the 4th year... VERY profitable..
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:52 AM   #11
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Cans of freon can include the oil.. usually do in fact. And, if the leak is in the coil, the oil usually stays put anyways.. its usually a compressor leak or FAST release of the freon that also releases the oil.
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:13 AM   #12
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I'm not an ac repairman but it seems if the oil is leaking out with the freon it would show at the leak.
BOB
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Cans of freon can include the oil.. usually do in fact. And, if the leak is in the coil, the oil usually stays put anyways.. its usually a compressor leak or FAST release of the freon that also releases the oil.
The oil travels around the system mixed with the refrigerant. Most of the oil in in the compressor, but you can leak a small amount of oil at any point in the system. Too much oil is as had as too little oil.

Most cans of refrigerant do not contain oil. The ones that do are specifically labeled as having oil. To properly recharge the oil in the system, you have to remove the compressor and drain all of the oil out, then blow all of the lines to clear them of oil. Once the system is cleared of oil, you add a measured amount of oil to the compressor and close the system. Refrigeration oil is highly hygroscopic (sucks up water vapor like a dry sponge). The PAE and POE oils used with R-134a do not react well with water and can cause problems. So you will need to pull a vacuum to dehydrate the system to remove the water vapor.

The cans with oil in the refrigerant need to be charge as liquid (can upside down) to get the oil. Charging from the top of the can will pull off only the gas and leave nearly all of the oil in the can. I do not recommend liquid charging for the driveway mechanic.

For the older roof top units operating on R-22, they may have a dino based oil, or they may have a synthetic. It is generally not good to mix the oils on the refrigeration system due to the anti-foaming agent added to the oils. You can get by mixing the oils, but you never know the results until much later. The oils used on R-22 are also hygroscopic.

A refrigerant leak will usually show up as an oily spot at the leak (depending on the size of the leak). A little oil goes a LONG way.

There are lots of "short-cut" methods used by shade-tree mechanics that may work for a short time, but they will come back to bite you in the you-know-what every time.

If you want to fix it, fix it right
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:34 AM   #14
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Just a thought...
At most a/c shops, 2-3 hours of labor plus the Schrader valve, refrigerant & oil will amount to about half the price of a new rooftop a/c. That's why most shops replace rather than repair these sealed units. You may find a shop that will do it for less, or there may be areas where labor rates are lower. That makes a repair more practical.
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