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Old 03-12-2009, 08:52 AM   #1
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Aftermarket performance products for DP's

I wanted to install an aftermarket turbo on my HR with a 5.9L Cummins. I am having a difficult time coming up with anything. All I want a bigger turbo for is to push more air and to cool the engine better. I can't imagine where a "power chip" would be installed. I have heard that Edge E-Z is specifically programmed for a motorhome. Any thoughts? The turbo is called the "Silver Bullet" and I am thinking that all I will be able to do is just rebuild/upgrade the old turbo.
Thanks for any advice.

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Old 03-12-2009, 09:34 AM   #2
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Adding a turbocharger won't cool the engine better. A turbocharger forces more fuel/air mix into the cylinders, generating more power, which generates more heat. Not what you're looking for, I think.

The power chip is installed in the engine controller.


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Old 03-12-2009, 01:47 PM   #3
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There are all kinds of stuff to oost the performance of your ISB...but at what cost? Yours being a '99 should mean that it is computer controlled. Some companies are more expensive than others.

Banks has a stinger kit that will get your ISB to 350HP and boost your torque and HP but at about $1700 plus installation and dynomometer tweaking (another $600-$700).


If your '99 has a slightly earlier engine in it (possible dep. on Chassis mfr. date and setup), they have this option.


Then of course there are these links for your perusal...







The following link is important to understand the evolution of your engine in the "Grand Cummins Scheme of Things"...


You can change the injectors, add propane or methanol etc... The list is virtually endless and the HP and torque available is astounding out of both the 12 valvers and 24 valvers...BUT...

More power in a diesel means more heat. This means your cooling system needs to handle this or buh-bye to your engine and transmission plus you will need better/additional cooling and filtration. Oh yeah. An Allison MD3060 6 speed trans. can handle 800 Ft/lbs. max. An MD3066 can handle 1050 Ft/lbs. An MD4000 series can handle (I think...) 1300-1500 Ft/lbs. To go from an MD3060 to a 3066 is about $1K-$2K difference on a rebuilt unit (i.e. $6700-$8700).

A lot of people race the Dodge diesel trucks and the 5.9 engines came directly out of these truck models. The C/ISC 8.3, M11 etc are all sourced from heavy trucking and equipment so they are designed to run and run and are very durable. The 5.9's have issues but they are fixable (Killer Dowel Pin etc) for a modest price.

HP & torque cost money. The more you want/need, the more you pay...exponentially so. There are a lot of options out there so explore them carefully. Talk to others with your engine/trans combo who have added HP/torque and see what caveats there are. I know you will need to watch the pyrometer and boost gauges with an eagle eye but like anything, you will get used to it.

Join a Cummins 5.9 forum and see what they have experienced.

Just my $.02.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:50 PM   #4
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Another option worth considering is opening the intake and exhaust plumbing. I've heard of folks who moved from 4" intake and exhaust to 5" or greater. Basically performing a modified 'stinger' project. The turbo and muffler on your ISB would work much better with less restriction incoming and outgoing.

I'm not sure if you could do this on the intake side because of the way all the plumbing is routed, but it's definitely doable on the exhaust side.

Here's a link to a discussion on the RV.net forum. There might be something on the IRV2 forums, but I haven't found it yet.


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Old 03-13-2009, 09:36 AM   #5
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Intake manifolds are running from $300 - $400 here...


These guys have tuning modules for the computer controlled fuel injection pump on your '99 ISB 24 valver as well as bigger injectors...


These guys have PnP chips from $450 - $500 dep. on your specific year and some are driver adjustable.


PDP has all kinds of electronic gizmos for your EC-ISB...


...and just one of their intake manifold options with air flow charts...


...and another...


so...the bottom line is...

From all of the vehicles and engines I have built, more air and cooler air intake charge can increase the power and performance if it is matched with the correct amount of additional fuel, unrestricted (lessened) intake tract and exhaust plumbing. Cooling the fuel mixture can also help (propane, methanol, water injection etc...). Whether it be a 2-cycle or 4-cycle engine, they both need the entire package to be looked at as HP/torque can be lost or directed to an undesirable RPM range if not balanced correctly.

FWIW, the plug and play products seem to offer a very good alternative to custom tuning. An intake manifold swap is a bolt-on enhancement that WILL pay bigger dividends on HP/torque and takes maybe 30 min to 1hr dep. on the stuff you have to work around but it basically requires only hand tools and a torque wrench.

For the exhaust, I know a lot of people with diesels that remove the muffler and enlarge the tubing from the turbo back to the tip. Going from a 3" or 4" to a 5" or larger and simplifying/shortening the tubing bends and run length helps get the spent and unused exhaust out faster which aids in breathing, power and cooling. With a DP, I seriously doubt you would notice a difference in noise but more likely a deeper tone at full throttle. Those beside you might notice at first but you aren't racing them so it isn't likely. A muffler on a gas engine is really used for noise control but on a diesel, it doesn't make that much of a difference IMHO.

I would go the intake and exhaust route first and see if you need more fuel. More fuel means more power if balanced correctly BUT it ALSO means more $$ at the pump and more heat. With the intake and exhaust, there is no risk of damage to the engine as you are only reducing restriction (restriction causes heat too) so it is almost like getting free HP/torque (except for the parts price... ).

Oh yeah! Do NOT go for a "special" "free-flow" air filter on a diesel as they only allow more dirt into the turbo and engine. A good sealed cone filter (like the factory uses) flows more than enough air for the engine with the stock manifold and exhaust being the largest limiting factor to extra power. Remember, with a diesel, CLEAN AIR is of paramount importance (as is proper sealing of the intake and exhaust tract, or you'll be buying a new turbo lickety-split.
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Old 03-13-2009, 01:51 PM   #6
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Quikduk....you are one serious source of information. Thanks for all those links.

I'm thinking of going the expanded exhaust route myself....any info on a muffler that would work best? I'm not comfortable with just straight pipe....so I'm leaning towards Flowmaster or the like.

Problem is....there are alot of competitors and options. Any recommendation you could make would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 03-13-2009, 07:42 PM   #7
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What would help is to know the engine CPL. This will identify what your torque and HP is and what's in the engine re: pistons (heat range is important), are valve seats installed (used with higher output spec), turbo size, etc. and if the torque and/or HP can be upgradable via programming from Cummins. I'd also use this to determine how aggressive you can be adding torque and HP.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:20 PM   #8
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For diesel mufflers you might look at http://www.aeroexaust.com

I have no personal experience with them put have read good things.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:48 PM   #9
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Hey I am glad to help. I have been looking at these options for a while now but I am more limited in that I have a C8.3 12 valver with a mechanical Bosche fuel pump.

FWIW, I can have my pump "turned up" and put matched high flow injectors, a metering plate, a quick spool turbo housing etc. but my stock intake flows as good as it will get on my big block. I can get 350HP and just under 1000 Ft/lb out of it, possibly a bit more but for me, I don't want to do that just yet.

I might try the no muffler route with a new air filter. I can make up a "replacement" straight pipe for the current semi-sized muffler and see if it helps.

I too have heard about the Aero muffler, as well as others. If it were me (someday... ), I would talk to a Big Truck tuning place and see what they would recommend. A standard diesel truck muffler wouldn't really work as well since while your engine was originally "sourced" from this area, I would bet that it has slightly stronger parts for the MH market. Only Cummins could tell you for sure.

Call Cummins and give them your engine serial number. They could tell you how your engine was built and what if anything you "should" do to beef it up. Sign up for a free Quikserve account and you can get links to all sorts of bulletins, parts list etc.

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