Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-30-2013, 06:29 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,493
A licensed AND skilled service provider first mist assume if they are beng paid for a service that the customer expects them to know everything...period.

This means checking code or manufacturer data and in this case, simply looking at the connector and observing only three conductors can ONLY supply 240 VAC without any 120 VAC branch circuits due to no neutral (safety ground always required) or 120 VAC

A simple look inside to observe standard american style appliances (120 VAC US not overseas high voltage) combined with 120 VAC outlets would cause the skilled person to stop to confirm the design.

So if your electrician is licensed and you paid him for service and he is not some buddy then make it known they are expected to cover any and all charges to restore all broken stuff as well as fully inspecting the full rig.

If some company then STOP NOW and get them to accept responsibility and get it fixed at a service shop with the payee as them, and get it in writing!

If they cannot do this simple task and cannot realize the correct wiring from simple observation and deduction it is a good chance someone could get hurt.
__________________

__________________
Tony & Lori
1989 Country Coach Savannah SE
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-30-2013, 06:38 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
powerboatr's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North East Texas
Posts: 3,666
our surge guard saved our rig last year
my brother in law had a 40 amp breaker and a normal 30 amp plug in at his garage
but the surge guard kept tripping and not allowing power to come in

i opened the power panel and about crapped my pants
both hot legs were on the same lug on the breaker.
it was a welding breaker previously and he had an electrician swap it right before we arrived so we could park in the driveway
we both took a lesson that day
thank goodness my surge guard was installed
__________________

__________________
USN Retired, Life time member of the DAV.
Enjoying the 2008 Damon Tuscany 4056, no your eyes are fine, there are really 6 slides
2016 Expedition Toad on Hauler flat bed
powerboatr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 07:35 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
gacamp's Avatar
 
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hardee Co. Florida
Posts: 334
Man I can identify with this. Just a few weeks ago my BIL, a 40 year master electrician, was going to install a 30 amp plug at his house for me to park the coach while visiting. He was in the process of finishing up when we arrived and first thing I asked him was if he had wired it 120V. He just laughed and said of course not 30 amp is 220V. I had to bring him in the coach, show him the appliances and book to convince him otherwise. His only reply was "boy that would have been a mess". Of course I do have a Surge Guard which would have stopped any damage.
__________________
gacamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 07:37 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,816
The person who said an electrician must know about a wide range of things is right.... But alas, very few it appears know about RVs.. .and thus, I say again, if you hire the job done, go 50 amps, that way it will most likely be done right.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 07:37 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
tedgard01's Avatar


 
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 3,009
That is really sad to hear about.

I had an electrician install a 50 amp box at my place. I was scared enough that I played dumb and asked him to show me each leg on a volt meeter before I would plug into it.
__________________
tedgard01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 07:54 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedgard01 View Post
That is really sad to hear about.

I had an electrician install a 50 amp box at my place. I was scared enough that I played dumb and asked him to show me each leg on a volt meeter before I would plug into it.
The 50 amp service doesn't really leave anything to interpretation. The 4 conductor plug consisting of 2 hot legs a neutral and a ground are a standard type of outlet in residential construction. Most code authority calls for this for dryers and ranges. The 120 vac 30 amp single pole breaker is not a standard in residential construction. Most residential construction has 15/20 amp 120 circuits and all others are 240 amp double pole breakers feeding dedicated circuits.

In the case reported by the OP, if the home owner asked for a 30 amp 240 vac outlet then that's what he got. It really depends on how specific the homeowner was in his request. There certainly is no requirement but home owners and coach owners need some level of understanding about basic electrical matters.
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:19 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Langley. BC, Canada
Posts: 677
Sorry to hear about that.

Licenced electricians, experienced or not apparently mess this up a lot. I think part of why this happens is that an RV 30A plug looks an awful lot like the old dryer configuration. Then if an RV owner also gives them incorrect info., it can lead to a big error. I would expect a smart electrician, experienced or not, to confirm the load's voltage before connecting up a new supply to it.

On the bright side, a whole lot more damage could have occurred resulting is some very expensive repair work. I've read about owners spending thousands to fix it all up.

An upstanding electrician should stand behind his work and offer to cover the repairs. Even if they listened to incorrect info. from the owner, they are the professional and if you were to report them to the authority having jurisdiction, I don't think the electrician would have a leg to stand on and could get in trouble. It's things like this that injure someone or worse so electricians are expected to have a higher duty of care.
__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS & Ford F250 supercab V10 4x4 LB
Langley, B.C.
myredracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:32 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 13,709
There are holes in the story. How many motorhomes have electrical voltage marked on the outside? Anyone have one/seen one? Electricians, both independent and members of IBEW unions are trained and serve an apprenticeship for working with voltages from below 120VAC to working on high-lines at thousands of volts. None are trained for working with recreational vehicles at that point.
The owner requested a 30A receptacle without asking if the electrician was qualified to work on RV electrical wiring. The electrician did what he was hired to do, wire a 30A receptacle. The internet is a vast resource of information, specifically irv2.com, of which the owner did not consult. The MH owners manual explains the voltage differences.
I'm sorry he damaged his MH, that is an expensive lesson.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA 1SG, retired;PPA,Good Sam Life member,FMCA."We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. "Abraham Lincoln"
Ray,IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:43 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Ramblin's Avatar
 
National RV Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Ford Super Duty Owner
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,253
I agree that the electrician's fault here depends on what he was asked to do. If the owner said "I need a 30A outlet for my RV", the technician should have done the research and installed the proper outlet.

If, on the other hand, he said "I need a 30A, 240V outlet that looks like THIS" and showed him a picture of the cable end, the technician was right to install the outlet he did.
__________________
2002 National Dolphin LX 6356
Workhorse W-22 chassis
Don't believe everything you think.
Ramblin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:48 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Steve Ownby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
There are holes in the story. How many motorhomes have electrical voltage marked on the outside? Anyone have one/seen one? Electricians, both independent and members of IBEW unions are trained and serve an apprenticeship for working with voltages from below 120VAC to working on high-lines at thousands of volts. None are trained for working with recreational vehicles at that point.
The owner requested a 30A receptacle without asking if the electrician was qualified to work on RV electrical wiring. The electrician did what he was hired to do, wire a 30A receptacle. The internet is a vast resource of information, specifically irv2.com, of which the owner did not consult. The MH owners manual explains the voltage differences.
I'm sorry he damaged his MH, that is an expensive lesson.
Many motorhomes, mine being one, have a decal at the electrical entrance cord saying 50 amp 120/240 vac service.



Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3093237394.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	323.2 KB
ID:	45086
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
Steve Ownby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2013, 08:54 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
eightydid's Avatar
 
Thor Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Las Vegas,NV
Posts: 1,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ownby View Post
Many motorhomes, mine being one, have a decal at the electrical entrance cord saying 50 amp 120/240 vac service.



Attachment 45086
Three pole 4 wire.
wire #1 Pole #1 120v phase A
wire #2 pole #2 120v Phase B
wire #3 pole #3 neutral
wire#4 ground
__________________
2014 Voltage 3200
06 Ram 3500 DRW
2005 FLHTCI You Can't Fix STUPID
eightydid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 09:10 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
chasfm11's Avatar
 
Texas Boomers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DFW Area, TX
Posts: 2,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
Let us be fair.

I'm thinkin we should not slam those that deliver the service.

A good electrician can do the job right, but only if is made clear that it is for an RV and must be 110V (with appropriate, accurate and detailed drawing). Otherwise, it is just another 30A dryer circuit.

I'm sorry but I don't agree, Dave. And this area is one of my pet peeves.

Some local governments go to a lot of trouble to restrict people from working on their own things. Electricity is one of them. Plumbing is often another. There is a licensing process that is supposed to "protect the consumer". Where was the consumer protection in the OP? Please bear with me on a slight thread drift to help make my point.

Texas licenses alarm companies. You can install all the alarms that you want but you cannot buy parts through alarm wholesalers without a license. Unlike electricity or plumbing, there is no test to pass to get a license. You must have worked for an already licensed Texas company for two years and they must verify that employment for you to apply for a license. Since you would then be their competitor, what do you thing the chances are of getting an alarm company employment letter? The regulation has nothing to do with customer safety and everything to do with stifling competition through State regulation.

You cannot have it both ways. The customer is not responsible to tell the professional how to do their job if that job is licensed and restricted. In the OP, rather than looking at a label somewhere, it would have been easy for the electrician to remove the RV's electrical panel cover and verify how it is wired. That would have left no doubt. If asked to hook up the subpanel in an outbuilding, I cannot imagine a competent electrician who wouldn't remove the subpanel cover and verify how it was wired. I don't see this matter any differently.

We are fortunate in Texas to have a provision for those of us with "Homestead" property to be allowed to serve as our own electrician (as long as it isn't installing the primary electrical panel in our residence). I'm required to go through the same inspections as a licensed electrician by my Town when I do. I hung my own 200amp meter base and electrical panel in our barn and then ran circuits for lights and outlets. The Town's inspector complimented my work because of how neatly it was done and how he didn't have to remind me about important NEC areas as he often did the professional electricians whose work he inspects. I had just raised cane with the Town over other inspection areas so he had no reason to "glad hand" me. What that underscored for me is the fact that those of us who have to live with the results of our work are more likely to get it right than someone who as a vested interest in getting it done quickly. I do understand that people who don't understand electricity should not work on it but a universal prohibition against anyone but "professionals" is not a guarantee of safety either. I'm not aware of any industry self-policing for electricians and the result is situations like the OP. Even if the home owner had said "install a 30amp 220outlet", the professional has an obligation to verify that information. My doctor is not going to prescribe medication based on my information and the electrician should not either.

Just my $.02 worth.
__________________
2000 Georgie Boy Landau 36' DP
2005 Saturn Vue toad
KF5-NJY
chasfm11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 09:46 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
flaggship1's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rainbow Riding
Posts: 18,395
There is enough blame to go around. I tend to fall slightly in the side of the home owner / RV owner being at fault.

Whether someone is licensed or not, it's always trust but verify. Since the OPs friend wasn't sure and it appears the electrician wasn't either, I think they should have found another electrician that specifically knew and had experience with 50 Amp 120, RV electric systems. I suspect any licensed electrician can do it, but that doesn't mean they know the application. I don't know if RV electronics is part of the licensing / certification process for electricians?? I also suspect that it doesn't come up that frequently.

Next up is the instructions were given and seems that the request was filled. But this is where I lay some blame in the electrician, who should also trust but verify. It is sad that we have become a world of more "order takers" with fewer thinkers. On the other hand when someone orders their ribeye well done, is it really the waitresses job to say, "Are you sure you want me to ruin your steak?".

Both at fault - but when I don't know, I ask lots of questions and do my research up front. Not after the fact, and usually don't rely on the first answer I get - and where surgery is concerned I get a second opinion. The medication analogy is fair - but when you have an adverse reaction to prescribed medication - do you blame the doctor because you neglected to tell him you were also taking XYZ drug? Just another 2 cents. YMMV
__________________
Steve & Annie (RVM2)
2008 Fleetwood Bounder 38F ~ 325 ISB Turbo ~ Freightliner XC 2014 CR-V ~ Invisibrake / Sterling All Terrain
Sioux Falls, SD (FullTime Since Nov 5th 2014)
flaggship1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2013, 09:58 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
FlyingDiver's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Somewhere....
Posts: 3,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightydid View Post
Three pole 4 wire.
wire #1 Pole #1 120v phase A
wire #2 pole #2 120v Phase B
wire #3 pole #3 neutral
wire#4 ground
Which is not what the electrician installed. He installed 30amp/240V two-pole (1 hots and a ground).
__________________

__________________
2008 King Aire 4562, Spartan K3(GT) w/ Cummins ISX 600
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7L V8 Hemi w/ Blue Ox Aventa LX Tow Bar and baseplate, SMI Air Force One brake
FlyingDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.