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Old 09-03-2013, 03:58 PM   #57
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Thread summary from my perspective:

Electrician should have looked at the TT30 and said: "I'm not bringing 220V to this outlet, it's not rated for 220V." He should have stopped there and done some more research into what the homeowner wanted.

That a professional electrician installed an outlet in a way that violates the NEC, and that the homeowner sustained property damage directly attributable to that violation is actionable, imo.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramblin View Post
Thread summary from my perspective:

Electrician should have looked at the TT30 and said: "I'm not bringing 220V to this outlet, it's not rated for 220V." He should have stopped there and done some more research into what the homeowner wanted.

That a professional electrician installed an outlet in a way that violates the NEC, and that the homeowner sustained property damage directly attributable to that violation is actionable, imo.

Yup. Excellent summary.

He had part "A" in one hand and part "B" in the other. He failed to see or understand that the two parts were not compatible and that something was amiss.

The way it works in the electrical industry is an owner tells an electrician what they want. Could be a simple verbal request in a home or detailed plans for a hospital or high-rise. It's always the electrician's sole responsibility to figure out how to do it safely and in accordance with any and all applicable codes and standards. Period. That's universal wherever you go.

If any electrician does his work exactly how an unlicensed owner tells him he should, he's an idiot and deserves to get in some serious hot water. Electrical mistakes are potentially serious and can cause major property damage and/or personal injury or even death. It's not to be taken lightly.

I've worked with many electrical inspectors and many hundreds of electricians on all types of construction projects as an electrical engineer. In this particular case, I can't see it any other way than being the electrician's fault. If nobody discusses this with the local inspector the guy could go on to do something far worse somewhere else.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:16 PM   #59
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chasfm11,

Like Thomas Edison said "why should I remember all this stuff when I can write it down"
This forum needs a "Like" button.

I twisted Mr. Edison's logic a bit.

Why shouldn't I write this stuff down because with my failing memory, there is no way I'm going to remember it when I need it.

My next challenge is to remember WHERE that I put it after I wrote it down.

Seriously, as complex as things can get, it is easy to have a distorted memory of something that you seldom use. I suspect that many of those who mis-wire electrical items probably knew better at one time. The documentation is there to keep everyone honest.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramblin View Post
Thread summary from my perspective:

Electrician should have looked at the TT30 and said: "I'm not bringing 220V to this outlet, it's not rated for 220V." He should have stopped there and done some more research into what the homeowner wanted.

That a professional electrician installed an outlet in a way that violates the NEC, and that the homeowner sustained property damage directly attributable to that violation is actionable, imo.
I agree too. No excuse at all for a properly licenced electrician to wire 220v to a 120v rated plug. He shouldn't have done it even if the customer begged for it.

At work I have this sort of problem with the electricians all the time. I have 4 wire 220v single phase machinery all over the place. Every time I submit a work request I get a $5000 quote for some insane three phase transformer, and another for $5000 in labor. Then an insane argument about the differences in 220v vs 240v devices and more threats of a transformer to "fix" that problem. I have to carefully talk everyone back from the cilff each time to get it done right.

At least my coworkers don't wire the wrong voltage into a two wire plus ground plug

I get the agrument that an elelectrician isn't farmiliar with RV plugs, but there are non destructive ways to learn, and ways to test the finished product before use. Sounds like this guy just paid a four figure sum for his electrical guy's latest hands on training.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:17 AM   #61
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In this particular case, I can't see it any other way than being the electrician's fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaycj View Post

I agree too. No excuse at all for a properly licensed electrician to wire 220v to a 120v rated plug. He shouldn't have done it even if the customer begged for it.

I get the argument that an electrician isn't familiar with RV plugs, but there are non destructive ways to learn, and ways to test the finished product before use.
Again, the electrician is responsible for not installing it correctly and we could assume that he DID test it. However, the RV owner is responsible for not testing the outlet making sure it won't do exactly what it did.

The electrician should return to correct the mistake PLUS the RV owner got away with a LOT less damage than what could have happened. BUT after replacing everything that was damaged his VERY next purchase should be a PI HW-50C EMS device that would have prevented the whole fiasco in the first place.

AND it will continue to prevent it from happening again when he is out traveling around and by chance comes across an errant RV pedestal which can and does happen.

Pay me now or PAY me later! A penny wise and a pound FOOLISH,

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:05 AM   #62
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Again, the electrician is responsible for not installing it correctly and we could assume that he DID test it. However, the RV owner is responsible for not testing the outlet making sure it won't do exactly what it did.

The electrician should return to correct the mistake PLUS the RV owner got away with a LOT less damage than what could have happened. BUT after replacing everything that was damaged his VERY next purchase should be a PI HW-50C EMS device that would have prevented the whole fiasco in the first place.

AND it will continue to prevent it from happening again when he is out traveling around and by chance comes across an errant RV pedestal which can and does happen.

Pay me now or PAY me later! A penny wise and a pound FOOLISH,

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Since I was quoted, I'll reply. After that I'm out to keep my end constructive.

I disagree completely that a home owner should have to have the knowledge to review and retest a job that he paid a licensed professional to do. In fact the job was likely hired out specifically because the RV owner did not have the knowledge to do the work or the testing. You should not need to own a separate fancy box or a meter to use an electrical socket in or on your home. In fact many states have an implied "warranty of workmanlike quality" for services performed on homes just like in this case. In general the idea is that the professionals have to provide their services in a way that meets some standards or expectations for similar work. It would be hard to argue that wiring 240V to a 120v only receptacle, or violating the NEC rule book meets professional standards.

I agree that that the Progressive Industries box would have prevented this problem by not allowing over 132 volts into the RV. It also will prevent future problems. I also think it will prevent problems where an RV owner is not at all aware of the circumstances surrounding the installation or maintenance of the electrical service. I think its mention here is constructive, but it does not shift the blame from being 100% on the electrician in this case.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:54 PM   #63
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That's why a good licensed electrician is also insured. $300,000 coverage here is only about $400.00. Comes in handy when you fry someones motor home.
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Old 09-05-2013, 04:58 PM   #64
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chasfm11, That's funny my wife got some Ginkgo to help improve my memory but I keep forgetting to take it.

Safe Travels

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:02 PM   #65
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I have almost 30 years of RVing experience and am aware of a LOT more than someone who just started this year.
I have over 55 years of RV'ing experience. Every day on this forum I get reminded of how much I've forgotten or haven't experienced yet!!
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:05 PM   #66
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A 30A 120V rv rceptacle is clearly marked on it's face and any electrician that looks at the receptacle should clearly see that. There is a definate pin arangement difference between a 30A 240v dryer receptacle and 30A 120V rv receptacle. He should have asked some questions before he did what he did. Qualified??? I would think not. JMHO
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:08 PM   #67
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chasfm11, That's funny my wife got some Ginkgo to help improve my memory but I keep forgetting to take it.

Safe Travels

Ron
My wife got some and she can't remember to take it either.
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