Another house GFCI tripping nightmare..with a twist..

[Berzerker]

2008 extreme rpm 23ft 30amp service toy hauler....

no problem running TH a/c plugged into the house using a plug adaptor. Today I was vacuuming with a small box fan on, turned the vacuum off to move some items.... turned it on...SNAP goes the GFCI in the garage...Mind you for years I have never had a issue with popping house GFCI's. What make my situation a horror story is the fact that I can still run the box fan but as soon as I turn on the vacuum pop goes then GCFI....turn the water heater, microwave or a/c on..SNAP it comes. What is odd is that I can turn the ac fan only on and no problem...

I am at wits end.... any help would be greatly appreciated....

[MtnTrek]

Welcome to the forum.
Yes indeed balancing electrical needs can be a challenge in RV's. There are usually only a couple circuits that have to share multiple loads. The GFIC is not only a ground safety feature but load protector also. So it's possible the inductive load of the motors is a tad high for the rated amperage. Many vacuums can draw 12+amps and a box fan on high could be 5A or more. When you first turn on a motor the inductive load creates back EMF so in effect the circuit sees an additional 20% increase. You A/C, as well as the micro are often on a separate dedicated or perhaps shared circuit.
Many forget the 12V battery charger / converter has to come out of the mix also and is often an overlooked load ??W, HW 800W, refrig.350W
After numerous trips breakers can often get weaker and may not retain their original rating or time delay.
Best of luck.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by MtnTrek

The GFIC is not only a ground safety feature but load protector also..

That's not true, here is some reading about GFCIs and a link.

A GFCI receptacle will trip off if you overload it (run too many watts).*This is not true at all. Only the circuit breaker in your electrical panel cares about the amount of load things are using. A GFCI is not at all sensitive to that, but it is very sensitive to electrical leaks AWAY FROM the path that loads (things running) use.

http://www.thecircuitdetective.com/h...ical_myths.htm

[rk911]

I'm wondering if the problem might be in the outlet the vacuum is plugged into. try a different outlet and see what happens.

[MtnTrek]

Originally Posted by twinboat

That's not true, here is some reading about GFCIs and a link.

A GFCI receptacle will trip off if you overload it (run too many watts).*This is not true at all. Only the circuit breaker in your electrical panel cares about the amount of load things are using. A GFCI is not at all sensitive to that, but it is very sensitive to electrical leaks AWAY FROM the path that loads (things running) use.

Home Electrical Myths

Hmm, Square D Homeline 20 Amp Single-Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker-HOM120GFICP - The Home Depot
Surely there are probably exceptions to all blanket statements. The GFCI "receptacles" are also on a breaker protected branch circuit. Many times when folks are resetting, pushing, flipping they may not really know what is being done for sure.
Did you have any theories on the OP?
Be well.

[rocketslc]

At least 2 or 3 times a year I get a call from a general contractor I do work for, crying because his shop vac (you've seen them, drywall mud stuck all over the outside, Sheetrock dust in the motor) keeps tripping the gfi receptacle at a job site.
I can't always reproduce the situation, but I am sure it has something to do with the dirty worn brushes in the vacuum motor.
I have to explain to him that my license and insurance is too important to me to risk removing a gfi where someone else might get hurt, and suggest cleaning and repairing the vacuum might be in order.
You might want to check the vacuum motor make sure it is not overly dirty, and that the brushes are overly worn.

[barmcd]

Originally Posted by twinboat

That's not true, here is some reading about GFCIs and a link.

A GFCI receptacle will trip off if you overload it (run too many watts).*This is not true at all. Only the circuit breaker in your electrical panel cares about the amount of load things are using. A GFCI is not at all sensitive to that, but it is very sensitive to electrical leaks AWAY FROM the path that loads (things running) use.

Home Electrical Myths

Originally Posted by MtnTrek

Hmm, Square D Homeline 20 Amp Single-Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker-HOM120GFICP - The Home Depot
Surely there are probably exceptions to all blanket statements. The GFCI "receptacles" are also on a breaker protected branch circuit. Many times when folks are resetting, pushing, flipping they may not really know what is being done for sure.
Did you have any theories on the OP?
Be well.

I think you guys are comparing granny smith and fuji apples. A GFCI outlet won't trip if overloaded because its also protected by a circuit breaker. A GFCI breaker will trip for both.

I have a 50 amp GFCI circuit breaker in my detached garage that I plug the motor home into.

[barmcd]

GFCI outlets go bad. Can you plug it into another outlet and see if the problems persist?

[Vicr]

The vacuum probably has voltage leakage from hot to neutral causing the GFCI outlet to trip. It's doing what it is supposed to do. And anyone who thinks a GFCI his an over current protection device just had a whole continent of electricians and engineers laughing. Please don't post electrical advice when you have no clue of what your saying.

[Berzerker]

But here is the rub....I attempt to turn on the water heater. . pop.. microwave. .pop...ac unit. .pop.. (each separately)...plug the vacuum directly into the garage gfci..works like a champ.... and just to muddy the waters a but more.. The box fan runs fine in the rv. ..as does the fan only on the ac...simultaneously. .. oh wait there's more... I turn off the converter breaker... turn on the micro wave.. it run fine for a few seconds then just slows down as if not enough juice.. I turned it off after 10 seconds or so...oh wait there's even more... when I went to remove the extension cord from the always tripping gfci in the garage as the box fan was running.. it tripped the gfci in the garage....arrrrrrrrrrgggghhh

[Berzerker]

.. oh yes important tidbit... the shore line is a tad to short to reach the garage gfci outlet. m I an running a 50 ft extension cord..small diameter. ..it has been working fine in the past. ..

[Dupdyke]

Perhaps you should try a different extension cord

[Gary RVRoamer]

OK, so you have a ground fault somewhere in the RV. Any of several 120vac loads in the RV can trigger the fault, which the GFCI outlet in the garage then detects. Since the GFCI trips any time the neutral current doesn't match the hot current, all you know at this point is that it has to be something common to all those branch circuits. I'd be looking at the shore cord and the laod center (breaker box in the RV).

And no, it is NOT too much current anywhere (amp overload). That's what circuit breakers do, not GFCIs.

[CharlesinGA]

Sometimes the switch in devices will make my GFCI receptacle in the shop trip. It probably is something like that. Most vacuums are double insulated (two prong cord olug) and as such, a low level internal short "cannot" reach the user, but if the GFCI is tripping, the problem should be found.

Try the vac on another GFCI and also on the same circuit without the extra cords, etc.

Although GFCI circuit breaker combinations in electrical panels are more reliable and less likely to cause problems, they are expensive, and you have no idea if the trip is caused by the GFCI circuitry or an overload of the breaker.

Quality GFCI wall receptacles are best in most cases (and more accessible for a reset) and much cheaper in the event that they need replacing, as they do go bad. Note that code does require a wet location rated receptacle or GFCI if the receptacle is installed out doors (and under the proper rain cover).

Charles

Charles