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Old 09-03-2012, 02:04 PM   #1
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Banks system Backfires going up a hill why?

Took out my rig A1996 Airbus after 11 months of storage and everything was going fine untiill we came to a hill. Then It started to slow Down on the hills and started to backfire, that was going to our destination ,,on the way back it did not do it ,the Banks was operating at 75% better than going up when it had hardly any power. Could anyone tell me why? Thanks
J,Walden
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:01 PM   #2
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Doubt very much if the Banks system had anything to do with the problem.

Old gas?
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #3
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We may be dealing with the same problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauletteone View Post
Took out my rig A1996 Airbus after 11 months of storage and everything was going fine untiill we came to a hill. Then It started to slow Down on the hills and started to backfire, that was going to our destination ,,on the way back it did not do it ,the Banks was operating at 75% better than going up when it had hardly any power. Could anyone tell me why? Thanks
J,Walden
This sounds very much like problems we had this summer and are still trying to fix. We drive a 2004 Winnebago Adventurer with a Workhorse chassis a almost 97,000 miles on the odometer. We also have the Banks system, but don't think it is the problem.

We took a 9-week, 5042 mile trip from NC to Jackson Hole, WY and back. Trouble started on our first day with a brief power loss and pretty much recurred off and on the whole trip. Things were worst driving the last day into Jackson Hole and driving the first day from Jackson Hole where the elevations exceeded 8000 ft. Climbing hills was challenging and we had odd back firing or a mild "coughing." We climbed a steep 5% grade out of Laramie repeatedly managing only from 11 to 25 mph. The final time, however, we climbed it normally, 49-50 mph the whole way and, except for a lower morning temperature, don't have much of an explanation for the drastic difference in performances.

We also noted that the backfire or coughing seemed to mainly happen when the transmission shifted up, from lower to higher gear. Did you notice that?

We have replaced a gas cap, a fuel pump, and two oxygen sensors; none fixed the problem, though I'm happy enough to have new equpiment on this aging beast . We now think the mass air flow sensor may be bad. I'm waiting for one to arrive. I'll install it, test it, and report back.

Bruce
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauletteone View Post
Took out my rig A1996 Airbus after 11 months of storage and everything was going fine untiill we came to a hill. Then It started to slow Down on the hills and started to backfire, that was going to our destination ,,on the way back it did not do it ,the Banks was operating at 75% better than going up when it had hardly any power. Could anyone tell me why? Thanks
J,Walden
you might have an exhaust leak. When I installed my headers I had to retorque them a 3rd time.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JucenBrudi View Post
This sounds very much like problems we had this summer and are still trying to fix. We drive a 2004 Winnebago Adventurer with a Workhorse chassis a almost 97,000 miles on the odometer. We also have the Banks system, but don't think it is the problem.

We took a 9-week, 5042 mile trip from NC to Jackson Hole, WY and back. Trouble started on our first day with a brief power loss and pretty much recurred off and on the whole trip. Things were worst driving the last day into Jackson Hole and driving the first day from Jackson Hole where the elevations exceeded 8000 ft. Climbing hills was challenging and we had odd back firing or a mild "coughing." We climbed a steep 5% grade out of Laramie repeatedly managing only from 11 to 25 mph. The final time, however, we climbed it normally, 49-50 mph the whole way and, except for a lower morning temperature, don't have much of an explanation for the drastic difference in performances.

We also noted that the backfire or coughing seemed to mainly happen when the transmission shifted up, from lower to higher gear. Did you notice that?

We have replaced a gas cap, a fuel pump, and two oxygen sensors; none fixed the problem, though I'm happy enough to have new equpiment on this aging beast . We now think the mass air flow sensor may be bad. I'm waiting for one to arrive. I'll install it, test it, and report back.

Bruce

holy parts swap. You should scan the system and see if any codes were stored. Replacing parts gets expensive fast.
If your MAF was bad the rig wouldnt run.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Doubt very much if the Banks system had anything to do with the problem.

Old gas?
Good possibility. Did you fill up with new gas before the problem went away?
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:51 AM   #7
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Hi everyone ,
Thanks for the info .will be taking the bus for checkup 2morrow. The gentlemen that surgested the old gas might be right.
I had 1/2 tank of last years gas and I filled up with the new just before the start of the trip witch was 270 miles maybe that was the problem.
Well thanks again will let you know.
John
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:04 AM   #8
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plug wires or other secondary ignition parts would be my thinking based on the brief description
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Old 09-05-2012, 01:54 PM   #9
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Codes

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holy parts swap. You should scan the system and see if any codes were stored. Replacing parts gets expensive fast.
We have codes and the parts installed were based on the symptom picture and the codes and the best advice I had at the time. Wyoming has not one authorized Workhorse service facility.

The codes which occurred repeatedly early in the trip were oxygen sensor codes: P0131, P0151, "O2 Sensor Circuit Low Volts," Bank 1, Sensor 1 and Bank 2, sensor 1, respectively. Those seem to occur only when the rig is actually experiencing the power failure.

On the return trip, not long after leaving Wyoming new codes set and these are still setting: P0102, P0443, "MAF or VAF A circuit Low Input" and "EVAP Emission Control System Purge Valve C Fault."

My most recent information came from a test drive with a Data Recorder from Brazel's RV. They read the data and found that the MAF sensor was stuck at a constant value when it should vary widely with acceleration.

Quote:
If your MAF was bad the rig wouldnt run.
That doesn't square with stuff I've read here on iRV2 or with what trusted technicians have said. It may not run well, but apparently it will run. It is my understanding you can disconnect the plug on the sensor and the engine control module will take over and the rig will perform well enough.

Thanks,
Bruce
ps I've gotten many chuckles over your comment, "Holy parts swap."
blb
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JucenBrudi View Post
My most recent information came from a test drive with a Data Recorder from Brazel's RV. They read the data and found that the MAF sensor was stuck at a constant value when it should vary widely with acceleration.

That doesn't square with stuff I've read here on iRV2 or with what trusted technicians have said. It may not run well, but apparently it will run. It is my understanding you can disconnect the plug on the sensor and the engine control module will take over and the rig will perform well enough.

Thanks,
Bruce
ps I've gotten many chuckles over your comment, "Holy parts swap."
blb
the way your post read is sounded like you were just putting parts on it.

I disconnected my MAF harness when doing a cold air intake. Got it all buckled up except for the plug and it would fire for a second then die. Retraced my steps to find the disconnected harness smiling back at me.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JucenBrudi View Post
We climbed a steep 5% grade out of Laramie repeatedly managing only from 11 to 25 mph. The final time, however, we climbed it normally, 49-50 mph the whole way and, except for a lower morning temperature, don't have much of an explanation for the drastic difference in performances.
5% is not a "steep grade", it's that 10% grade West out of Jackson Hole that's steep!
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #12
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Hi everyone ,
Thanks for the info .will be taking the bus for checkup 2morrow. The gentlemen that surgested the old gas might be right.
I had 1/2 tank of last years gas and I filled up with the new just before the start of the trip which was 270 miles maybe that was the problem.
Well thanks again will let you know.
John
Well, I've been called worse!!
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:47 AM   #13
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Jucen, it sounds with so many codes being stored, its time to look for a common denominator....such as a common ground that's bad, or a multi pin connector that isn't pushed together or is corroded. With the codes you have posted, their isn't any connection between all of them except a possible ground, multi pin connector or ecu.
ECUs can and do fail but not all that often...grounds and connection problems are quite common
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:46 PM   #14
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Maybe getting somewhere

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Jucen, it sounds with so many codes being stored, its time to look for a common denominator....such as a common ground that's bad, or a multi pin connector that isn't pushed together or is corroded. With the codes you have posted, their isn't any connection between all of them except a possible ground, multi pin connector or ecu.
ECUs can and do fail but not all that often...grounds and connection problems are quite common
Your suggestion was very plausible and I now have information which bears on it. Since you posted I have installed a new mass air flow sensor and a new engine control module. The latter was a pure luxury, an UltraPower reprogramming, not an attempt to solve the current problem. It is relevant, however, because after the test drive didn't show the problem was cured we have pretty good reason to believe neither the sensor nor the ECU were to blame for the P0102 or P0433 codes.

I may not have mentioned that I'm working with Brazel's RV (the UltraPower people) via their Data Recorder, email, and phone. With the data indicating that the new MAF sensor and new ECU did not cure the problem they studied the wiring and found that the ENG-1 fuse is common to both the EVAP and MAF circuits (P0443, P0102, respectively) and the common denominator you suggested. They had me check the fuse; it was, in fact, blown. I replaced it and have started the engine 3 times with no more check-engine light. A test drive will be a better test, but I believe those three starts would have set the codes before.

This is all happening right now as I write so I don't have more details. I think they are studying for wiring problems which could have blown the fuse.

Over the long trip we got the two oxygen sensor codes early and most often, but under somewhat unusual circumstances, climbing 5% grades in the mountains. We've not done that since we finished the trip. The new oxygen sensors may have fixed that problem. Maybe the oxygen codes and the newer codes were quite separate events, maybe not.

Your post raised a question. My impression of the engine is it is a mass of wiring. Where would one start to run down a bad ground or short? There must be a systematic way to go about it.

Thank you for your input.
Later,
Bruce
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