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Old 11-18-2013, 11:32 AM   #15
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Ok, what I have does not make any sense to me. I disconnected the output (fuse panel) side of the solenoid and I measure 12v on the output when the switch is rocked toward connect, and 0v when the switch is rocked toward disconnect. All good right? Just for good measure I have the two wires from the output bolted together so I take measurement at that junction,should be 0v right, and it is. This tells me that the solenoid is working just like it is supposed to be right. I hook everything back up and it is still the same 12v on both sides of the solenoid no matter what switch position. There has to be a bypass somewhere but why didn't I measure it with the output disconnected from the solenoid?
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #16
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Ok, playing with it a little more, I was able to get it to disconnect, with the no load attached. I wonder why it is that it works every time with no load attached and only occasionally with the load attached. The only load I have on it is a single light bulb in the living room. I can see it flicker when I hit the disconnect position but it stays on. Occasionally it will disconnect and turn off. It doesn't seem to have any trouble connecting though. I measure 10.85v on the correct control pins while engaging the switch so that seems right. The schematic calls for at least 10.5 volts.
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Old 11-18-2013, 12:25 PM   #17
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One more newly discovered clue for you, in the above picture of my BCC, on the output of the upper solenoid, there are two red cables attached. With these disconnected, the switch acts like it is supposed to. With the one leading down to the large fuses below the solenoids attached by itself, the switch acts like it is supposed to, this is the feed to the house circuits. When I add the upper red cable that runs to the fuse panel next to the solenoid, that's when the trouble starts and it will not disconnect, I'm not sure what these fuses feed as they are not labeled other than their sizes.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:57 PM   #18
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Here's the schematic and trouble shooting procedures for your entire BCC. Hope it helps.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:05 PM   #19
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You may be getting fooled using a digital voltmeter with some of your readings.

Try this. Remove the nut on the right stud but leave the wire on the post. Hold it tight. Have someone turn on the solenoid. Now carefully remove the cable and see if that interior light goes off. If it does not your voltage is indeed getting back fed to the other side from somewhere.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:35 PM   #20
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Thank you so much Loulong for that great document. I've been looking for something like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
You may be getting fooled using a digital voltmeter with some of your readings.

Try this. Remove the nut on the right stud but leave the wire on the post. Hold it tight. Have someone turn on the solenoid. Now carefully remove the cable and see if that interior light goes off. If it does not your voltage is indeed getting back fed to the other side from somewhere.
Ok, I seem to have found the problem, thanks to you guys for your help in leading me to the fix. The stud on the right!!! with the wires just sitting on it, everything was fine but as soon as I torque the nut down the input is connected to the output. so I tightened it up and grabbed the wire and put my wrench on the nut and pulled them both back just a hair and it works every time. So I guess I will need to replace the solenoid soon but it is working now.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:10 PM   #21
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Excellent John. Do me a favor when you get the replacement. Would you please take the old one apart and take some pictures to post here. I would love to see the insides. I bet it could be repaired very easily. But mostly it will give me an idea how it could become intermittent.

Thanks.,
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:31 PM   #22
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Excellent John. Do me a favor when you get the replacement. Would you please take the old one apart and take some pictures to post here. I would love to see the insides. I bet it could be repaired very easily. But mostly it will give me an idea how it could become intermittent.
Thanks.,
That's pretty basic. The internal contact is nothing more than the head of the bolt that forms the external stud. Torquing the nut most likely broke loose any tacking or welding of the internal contact surfaces. It will probably fail again soon, but could be taken apart, and both the stud head and the contact washer rotated to expose a new surface. Have done that many times.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
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That's pretty basic. The internal contact is nothing more than the head of the bolt that forms the external stud. Torquing the nut most likely broke loose any tacking or welding of the internal contact surfaces. It will probably fail again soon, but could be taken apart, and both the stud head and the contact washer rotated to expose a new surface. Have done that many times.

I'm a Certified ET, FCC 1st, and own an electronic repair service. I have not seen the inside of one of these myself.

Hitting it with the handle of a screwdriver as I had suggested earlier may have cleared the issue. At that point I would have recommended replacement of course.

I'm very curious how the pendulum device works inside. I started out as a tike taking toys apart. Moved on to old toasters and clocks or anything else my friends brought me to tear apart.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:12 PM   #24
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I'm very curious how the pendulum device works inside. I started out as a tike taking toys apart. Moved on to old toasters and clocks or anything else my friends brought me to tear apart.
When I get a new one, I'll contact you for your address and send it to you and you can have at it any way you like. I see your not too far away from me anyway.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:40 PM   #25
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I'm a Certified ET, FCC 1st, and own an electronic repair service. I have not seen the inside of one of these myself.

I'm very curious how the pendulum device works inside. I started out as a tike taking toys apart. Moved on to old toasters and clocks or anything else my friends brought me to tear apart.
I respect your credentials as I'm a retired EE myself with 45 years design and application experience.

The pendulum is a suspended magnet. The relay coil is energized in opposite directions for ON and OFF. The magnetic field through the coil, magnetizes the core, and pulls the contacts closed, but will either attract the magnet into position to hold the contacts closed (once the voltage is removed) or, on reverse polarity, will cause the magnetic pendulum to swing out of the way and let the contacts open when the voltage is removed. The result is a device that can be switched ON or OFF with a pulse, but requires NO holding voltage to remain activated.

This type device is used in many areas throughout industry where fail safe insurance from power loss is important. Simple but effective.
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Old 11-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #26
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When I get a new one, I'll contact you for your address and send it to you and you can have at it any way you like. I see your not too far away from me anyway.
Actually we are in Orlando Florida area right now.
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Old 12-03-2013, 06:55 PM   #27
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The switch on my Daybreak is backwards compared to all of the other switches. I have to push the switch up to connect the batteries all of the other switches go down to turn on. I would turn on some 12 lights and flip the switch to see if they shut off. My coach batteries and engine batteries not connected together, the only light that runs off of the engine battery is the dome light over my head.
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