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Old 09-21-2016, 02:36 PM   #15
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My Dad used to comment on the news reports when "the car failed to negotiate the curve". His theory that it was the loose nut behind the wheel that caused most of the problems.
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Old 09-22-2016, 05:43 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
My Dad used to comment on the news reports when "the car failed to negotiate the curve". His theory that it was the loose nut behind the wheel that caused most of the problems.
I tend to agree, that most car accidents are caused by distracted drivers, inappropriate speeds, or other human errors of judgement. Most. Not all.

I also worry that these are excuses that "all the rest of us safe drivers" use sometimes so that we feel more secure that it won't ever happen to us. After all... if the other drivers are all going too fast, or texting while driving, or not paying enough attention to their tire age or pressures, or.... you get the idea. And then if we don't drive too fast (usually) or text while driving (nearly always, but may glance at the screen when one comes in) and pay enough attention to our tires (typically), then we'll be just fine.

That's pretty descent logic, except that the average RV driver is just that---average. We aren't all in the top 5% of drivers, even though we'd love to think that we are. Ok... maybe you are. But even the best of the best sometimes buys a fluke tire that doesn't show it's flaw until it does. Even the best drivers can run over a rouge piece of road debris. You get the idea.

I like these reminders that RV accidents DO happen. I try to focus not only on the prevention of them <insert prevention cliche here> but also the response to them in the rare instance when the prevention fails. Yes, my tires are young and I run TPMS on every trip. No, I don't use the harsh tire cleaners that are generally believed to dry them out.. Yes, I try hard to keep my speed under 70.... but Yes, I also occasionally hit the accelerator to try to pass someone who doesn't use cruise control, and who's speed varies between 60-70, accelerating to 70+ as soon as they see my big fat rig trying to pass them. I'm sure I'm the only RV driver who has ever gone over 70, right?

So I also watch the videos on how to respond to a blowout. I read up on the research and have concluded that that the Michelin folks who make the videos that I've seen as a matter of public safety know what they are talking about. As much as my "gut" might tell me to slam on the brakes because "it just doesn't make sense to drive faster," I convinced myself that the laws of physics are more reliable. If it happens to me, I hope that the logic centers in my brain will overcome the non-thinking reactions, and that I will hit the accelerator instead of the brakes in that critical split second so that the physics have a moment to kick in while my mind processes the next steps.

Will I be ready? I sure hope so! But I appreciate that people on this forum take the time to post these videos to REMIND me to read/watch/learn again and again. Thanks to the OP!!
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:11 AM   #17
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I tend to agree, that most car accidents are caused by distracted drivers, inappropriate speeds, or other human errors of judgement. Most. Not all.

I also worry that these are excuses that "all the rest of us safe drivers" use sometimes so that we feel more secure that it won't ever happen to us. After all... if the other drivers are all going too fast, or texting while driving, or not paying enough attention to their tire age or pressures, or.... you get the idea. And then if we don't drive too fast (usually) or text while driving (nearly always, but may glance at the screen when one comes in) and pay enough attention to our tires (typically), then we'll be just fine.

That's pretty descent logic, except that the average RV driver is just that---average. We aren't all in the top 5% of drivers, even though we'd love to think that we are. Ok... maybe you are. But even the best of the best sometimes buys a fluke tire that doesn't show it's flaw until it does. Even the best drivers can run over a rouge piece of road debris. You get the idea.

I like these reminders that RV accidents DO happen. I try to focus not only on the prevention of them <insert prevention cliche here> but also the response to them in the rare instance when the prevention fails. Yes, my tires are young and I run TPMS on every trip. No, I don't use the harsh tire cleaners that are generally believed to dry them out.. Yes, I try hard to keep my speed under 70.... but Yes, I also occasionally hit the accelerator to try to pass someone who doesn't use cruise control, and who's speed varies between 60-70, accelerating to 70+ as soon as they see my big fat rig trying to pass them. I'm sure I'm the only RV driver who has ever gone over 70, right?

So I also watch the videos on how to respond to a blowout. I read up on the research and have concluded that that the Michelin folks who make the videos that I've seen as a matter of public safety know what they are talking about. As much as my "gut" might tell me to slam on the brakes because "it just doesn't make sense to drive faster," I convinced myself that the laws of physics are more reliable. If it happens to me, I hope that the logic centers in my brain will overcome the non-thinking reactions, and that I will hit the accelerator instead of the brakes in that critical split second so that the physics have a moment to kick in while my mind processes the next steps.

Will I be ready? I sure hope so! But I appreciate that people on this forum take the time to post these videos to REMIND me to read/watch/learn again and again. Thanks to the OP!!
We ride motorcycles and one of the mantras in our club is "it is not if you are going to have an accident but when". We try to be as prepared as possible but realize we cannot prepare for everything. I just hope that I do not cause the accident that we are involved in and I am not doing anything to add to the severity. I have been fortunate to avoid a couple accidents by driving defensively and non aggressively. Touch wood!!
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:53 AM   #18
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I have looked at that video a number of times on various forums. It makes no more sense now than when I first saw it. I had a right front blowout on a very busy interstate. We were cruising at 60 with the cruise control on, well within the tire's weight limit, it was properly inflated and had not aged out. We had just crossed a small bridge, and the emergency services driver thought we had run over something that caused the catastrophic failure. When the tire failed the steering wheel started vibrating rapidly back and forth with a slight pull to the right. I immediately tapped off the cruise control and, as we slowed, gradually moved to the shoulder. The biggest problem we had was that the shoulder was very narrow, with a 45 degree angle drop off. My Velvac mirrors have three lenses, the bottom is oriented on each respective front tire, so I could see exactly how far I needed to get off the hard stand before I started down the embankment. Even getting as far as I could into the grass left us dangerously close the highway. Every 18 wheeler that went by, shook the entire coach. The emergency services driver managed to get the remnants of the old tire off, and the new tire on, without removing the rim.

As I look back on this experience, the last thing I wanted (or needed) was more speed, or thrust, it would have caused more damage and exacerbated the problem. At no time was I in danger of loosing control of the coach or was the vibration or pull to the right severe. Attempting to accelerate or increase thrust never entered my mind. I also did not see where any steering assist system was needed. With the engine running and the power steering working, steering was fine.

The Michelin video sounds good and looks good, however, all the scenarios are scripted with safety the primary consideration. It's like a lot of "school solutions," every aspect of the demonstration is planned. However, when doing it for real, I doubt it's merit.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:11 PM   #19
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So the Driver is out in the hammer lane doing mach 2 and the Tire just lets loose, right... or, did the Tire come in contact with something? maybe days/weeks before? Be careful where you pull of the road as the edge of the asphalt/concrete usually has a edge that will cut/bruise the inside wall of the Tire(s) and you won't see it!
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:09 PM   #20
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I have looked at that video a number of times on various forums. It makes no more sense now than when I first saw it. I had a right front blowout on a very busy interstate. We were cruising at 60 with the cruise control on, well within the tire's weight limit, it was properly inflated and had not aged out.
I would say that your speed is what made it easier to control. Would have probably been different story if you had been going 70.

What the training video says does make a bit of sense but like you, i'm not sure i could follow the advice given. I wouldn't slam on the brakes as i know that's a no no with most vehicles in most situations. With the power steering, i believe holding onto the wheel tight and coasting to a stop would be what i'd try. Hopefully, i won't ever have to put any of this to the test!
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Old 09-30-2016, 05:54 AM   #21
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RV tire blowout explanation #2

For me, it’s very intuitive to “drive” the vehicle with your foot throttle (as in high performance racing machines)….. OR with your hand throttles (as in high performance multi-engine jet aircraft). However, for me it’s NOT intuitive to operate the iphone (I can’t even figure out how to lock it in landscape mode for taking pictures). IMO it has a lot to do with how you grew up and what you studied and what you do, or did, for a living (also what are your hobbies). All this also determines how you might deal with emergencies, and also your state of mind when you suddenly are faced with the emergency of a front tire blowout while driving your motorhome.
Are you a racecar driver, a commercial pilot, a physicist, an engineer,…..or a combination thereof? Do you enjoy the thorough study of all the systems of whatever vehicle you operate? Have you ever engaged in force vector analysis? If the answer is no, then I don’t see how you can know where/how the weight of a motorhome shifts whenever a front tire blows out,……nor know why the motorhome will have asymmetrical thrust when power is maintained or increased.
IMO the so-called Michelin RV tire blowout video does NOT adequately explain all the above.
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:38 PM   #22
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I've watched the subject video, and other video's of planned blowouts which always includes the magical side force that is created towards the blow out tire. What I haven't seen is anyone explain what creates that mysterious side force.
Here's my opinion of why a motorhome will tend to turn towards the blown out tire, some more and some less. My theory can be easily demonstrated in a classroom or seminar environment. It's in the alignment settings. Countless times I have read on this forum to increase the caster setting up to or nearly to the maximum limit allowed by the manufacturer. The idea of that is it makes the front wheels self center well and go straight down the road. That actually works well As long as there are no outside influences on the coach, such as wind, from any source. Dialing in a lot of caster in a motorhome creates a lot of trail between the kingpin centerline and the spindle centerline where they hit the pavement. The greater this trail figure is, the easier it is for wind to push the front of the coach around on the road, and a motorhome has a lot of side surface for wind to push on up around the front wheels. As for the blowout side force, it comes from the big caster angle and a large shift in the front end weight coming from the blown out tire, to the remaining good tire. Putting a disproportionate amount of weight on one front tire that has a high caster angle will make it tend to turn toward the tire that has the lesser amount of weight. The greater the caster angle, the harder the turn.
If you have read my suggestions in other posts, I set my caster back to a minimum, about 3*, and minimal total toe, 1/32" or less. Done this to more than one F53 chassis and they drive great with no need for add-ons.
Like I said, this can be easily demonstrated with a solid front axle as a prop. Also the ill affects of a lot of trail from a big caster angle can be demonstrated also.
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Old 10-01-2016, 06:51 PM   #23
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I learned that what causes the front to yaw towards the side of the blown front tire, is nothing but a frictional force which develops due to the significant force of the mass of the motorhome already traveling forward plus the significant friction and rolling resistance of the flat tire. The first handy way of decreasing this adverse force is to quickly introduce another frictional force to the opposite side,....namely turn the darn good front tire/wheel to the opposite side, ....for not crying out loud!
It's called a steering wheel for a reason.
Here's the interesting part: When the blown tire goes flat (fairly instantanenously) part of the weight of the motorhome that it was holding up is shifted to the other front tire and to the rear drive tires on the same side as the blown tire. THAT'S the reason you do NOT want to hit the brakes! YES, due to the additional weight, these tires will have more braking power than the other drive tires on the other side. THIS will ADD to the yaw toward the side of the failed tire! This is just the opposite of what you want.
If you understand the physics of it, there's a chance that performing all the correct steps MIGHT become intuitive.
And, this same weight shift is the reason it's important to NOT decrease the power. Adding power is alright, but do NOT decrease the power the power,....until you get everything under control.
BTW the Michelin video is kinda correct, except the author could've done a better job of explaining the power vector analysis.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:25 PM   #24
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This one was a couple days ago.
Speed is a large part of the equation.

Driver captures video of RV crossing over median on I-26 | Local News - WYFF Home
They were very lucky. Amazing that they did not hit anyone traveling that far going the wrong way.
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:01 PM   #25
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RV tire blowout explanation #2


...Are you a racecar driver, a commercial pilot, a physicist, an engineer,….? ...
As a matter of fact, I am...pilot that is. Started with helicopters in VN then moved on to corporate jets. Having gone through decades of repetitive 'real' training, the big bang when the tire blew certainly got my attention. In fact, for a fraction of a second I thought, "got to put this thing on the ground!" However the thought of adding throttle never entered my mind, I wanted to slow down, not speed up, and get off the interstate. The only time I can recall wanting more speed was when I was on fire. IMHO, the Michelin video just doesn't make sense.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:00 PM   #26
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As a matter of fact, I am...pilot that is. Started with helicopters in VN then moved on to corporate jets. Having gone through decades of repetitive 'real' training, the big bang when the tire blew certainly got my attention. In fact, for a fraction of a second I thought, "got to put this thing on the ground!" However the thought of adding throttle never entered my mind, I wanted to slow down, not speed up, and get off the interstate. The only time I can recall wanting more speed was when I was on fire. IMHO, the Michelin video just doesn't make sense.
Hear me out. The name of the author of the Michelin video is John Anderson, he's the A'Weigh We Go guy. My guess is that he did not anticipate that so many MH drivers would miss the point of what was really on his mind when he states that the most important thing to do is to FIRST step on the throttle. I think I know where he's coming from, but I would've said it differently.
I think in terms of force vector analysis,.....what is the origin of the force, what is it doing, and what to do in order to neutralize the force. In this case, I can relate it to one of your engines failing on the takeoff roll of a high-performance corporate jet aircraft,....at just below Vr. As you know, the yaw is significant. I don't know about you, but I certainly do NOT abort/panic stop. Heck no, I instantly stand on the proper rudder pedal(counter the yaw), leave the power levers where they are and keep on accelerating to Vr+4 and rotate and fly.
Now, I repeat, if I'm driving my motor and experience a blow out,.....let's think about it. I've been driving down the interstate, on cruise control. And, driving means that if I feel or see any reason to turn the steering wheel, well, I've been doing this most of my life, namely I turn the steering wheel in order to stay in my lane. I simply turn the steering wheel however much it takes to stay in my lane. THAT'S the FIRST thing I do, it's natural/intuitive. With my experience, at my age, I'm certainly no going to be startled by a tire blowout. Heck, I've been thinking all along, what if a tire blows? It's just like when I started flying a J-3 Cub (while still in high school). I learned early on to always be thinking/planning where I'm going to glide to and land if my engine quits. Well, if my front tire blows in my motorhome, I already know that that reducing power is the wrong thing to do (I've already explained the reason on another post), AND I already know that hitting the brake is a major NO-NO (I've already explained that also).
OK, I've decided to give John Anderson the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps, he decided to instruct that the first thing the driver should do is to stand on the throttle. I also suspect that he assumes that most drivers are going to be turning the steering wheel automatically (to counter the yaw). It might be that he decided that if you're following his instruction and standing on the throttle it stands to reason that you're not panicking and hitting the brakes. Hitting the brakes is worst than hitting the throttle (in the first seconds of the event).
What do you reckon?

BTW he, nor I, ever even hinted that if you the stand on the throttle that you're going to immediately see a significant increase in speed. It's not added speed that's beneficial, it's the no standing on the brake and no reduction in power that is what helps you get things under control.
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:42 PM   #27
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Thanks for your thoughts, Cloud Dancer. When my RF tire blew, of course there was yaw to the right and, what was even more irritating, was the back and forth vibration of the steering wheel...couple of inches. The yaw was minor, it took no real effort to keep the coach centered in the lane until slow enough to pull over to the side. The yaw was much less than having the right engine in a light twin decide it didn't want to run any more and having to compensate for that. The coach was totally under control at all times. With the ease in maintaining that control, looking back on it, I still see absolutely no reason to add thrust. The purpose of the thrust is to control yaw and I didn't have that problem. Once I had the wheel under control, which was nearly instantly...I'm normally a two handed driver...I rest both hands on the wheel rather than one in my lap, I tapped the cruise control off.

This was my second blow out (it was on our previous coach, 40' American Allegiance, no tag). The first was the inner dually, curb side on a Class C...that was many years ago.

Hopefully I'll have no more blow outs, but if I do...I still see no reason to add thrust.
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Old 10-05-2016, 05:16 AM   #28
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Once I had the wheel under control, which was nearly instantly...I'm normally a two handed driver...I rest both hands on the wheel rather than one in my lap, I tapped the cruise control off.

Hopefully I'll have no more blow outs, but if I do...I still see no reason to add thrust.
I'll argue that you did add thrust- you had the cruise control on, so when the tire blew and the coach slowed and you were getting the wheel under control, the cruise control added thrust to maintain your speed until you tapped it off.

Glad it you didn't have a problem! I'm with you, too- two hands on the wheel..

Walt
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