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Old 04-29-2008, 09:34 AM   #43
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I have the 4l GM transmission so it does not upshift if I have it locked into 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear.
I've had mine pushing me up around 5000 RPM before in 2nd gear and I was comfortable with the speed but did'nt want to shift into 3rd just yet.
Out of curiosity, for example , you have put your Allison in 3rd gear and are going down a long grade and gravity is trying to get you down faster than the tranny alone can hold you back, but you don't feel safe going faster and the last thing you want to do is upshift at this point.
If you have gotten to know your rig, and if it is consistent, at what RPM will the Allison decide to upshift on its own?
I don't think I would like that but if I owned one and I knew for example that at 5000 RPM it will Upshift if I don't slow it down, then I would jus have to get used to watching the tach, and not let it get to the 'Allison upshift' RPM.
Am I correct in thinking, the tranny can be controlled? Or does it just surprise you when it upshifts?
I can not understand why they design these things like that just to protect the transmission.
I hope they don't start designing brakes that if they start to get a little hot, the system 'self prtects' and disables the brakes altogether so they may cool.
As you fly off a mountain
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:35 AM   #44
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rickandcheryl:
All the best braking methods in the world won't do you any good if your brakes are defective! I cite the NHTSA investigation of W22 chassis brakes now in progress #EA07016. I just reported mine, all four rotors cracked all the way through at less then 40K miles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't dispute some having W22 brake problems, but I have never heard of an accident cause by the brakes on a W22. Have you???

-Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>the last time I checked there were 5 accidents that NHTSA said were related to the NHTSA investigation. That was about 6 months ago.
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:51 AM   #45
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I don't think I would like that but if I owned one and I knew for example that at 5000 RPM it will Upshift if I don't slow it down, then I would jus have to get used to watching the tach, and not let it get to the 'Allison upshift' RPM.
Am I correct in thinking, the tranny can be controlled? Or does it just surprise you when it upshifts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I watch my tach constantly on downgrades. When it gets to 4000 rpm, I stab the brakes until I see about 3500 rpm. If I do it too often, I slow down and downshift. I try to pick a gear that will get me to the bottom and stay under 4000 rpm, doesn't always work.

I try to stab hard enough to make sure that the toad brake does some of the work (brake buddy).
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:32 AM   #46
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Thanks bruceh,
But I was wondering at what RPM does the Allison upshift into 3rd (for example), even when you have it locked into 2nd gear?
Sometimes 50/55 MPH is reasonable but I don't want to go to 3rd gear and have to start hitting the brakes, which puts my engine at about 4500/5000, I think.
I definitly seem to wind my engine up a lot faster than anybody else on the forum, but I feel it necessary in the Co mountains and only a 4 speed tranny.
That 8.1 better be tough. It 'self protects' too and cuts off for a millisecond when it hits the rev limiter at 5000 RPM
Everybody who has one seems to love their Allison transmission but it sounds like there may be some things about it that I would'nt like.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:17 PM   #47
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Max if you are going downhill at 5000 RPM in 3rd gear and decide you are going too fast, what happens if you shift to 2nd gear, will it shift? The last GM four speed I had would not, and I got into an uneasy situation a couple of times decending long steep grades. I had hot of insufficient brakes for the load and grade and couldn't lower the RPM to a suitable level with the brakes so that the trans would downshift. Not a good thing. I was just curious if yours would downshift under these conditions.
As for the Allison up shifting, I have not expierienced this, as I use 4000 RPM as my goal during decelleration downhill. I like bruceh then brake hard and bring RPM down, and repeat as many times as necessary to maintain 4000 RPM.

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Old 04-29-2008, 03:45 PM   #48
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:
Max if you are going downhill at 5000 RPM in 3rd gear and decide you are going too fast, what happens if you shift to 2nd gear, will it shift? The last GM four speed I had would not, and I got into an uneasy situation a couple of
times decending long steep grades. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dieselclacker, I have never tried to dwnshift when I was already at 5000 RPM. I hope I never feel the need to because if it actually did downshift, I'm afraid that big engine would grenade on me right thru the doghouse. But, it will not upshift, by itself if I have it locked down in a lower gear, even if it pushes beyond 5000RPM.
I've only seen RPM above 4000 in 2 nd ,and maybe 1st gear. Both uphill and downhill.
Generaly it's on long uphills where it can't pull 3rd gear or long downhills where 2nd gear allows me to not use the brakes and still run 50/55 MPH. In that situation, 3rd gear would have me not only stabbing the brakes but probably riding them too.
I do not like the smell of hot brakes.

Please tell me why you would even consider downshifting your GM transmission if you were already at 5000 RPM ? Was it an emergency?
My P-32 with the GM tranny and 8.1 L will easily go the "Vehicle Speed Limit", 80 MPH in 3rd gear and I bet it won't be much over 4000RPM. You must have been flying down that hill in 3rd gear at 5000 RPM,
Uh, unless I misunderstood something.
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:34 PM   #49
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Max the transmission I had was a Turbo Hydro 400 or there abouts. Situation was a sudden hairpin curve at the end of a long down hill run that included some 11 percent grade. In my estimation speed was too great for curve. Not only would not down shift, but ended up in neutral. Believe it is programmed in so as to protect engine and trans. 5000 RPM is just an arbitrary RPM dont know exact speed, but is lower some where in the 4000 range. Needless to say I made the curve, but had to change my shorts.

You maybe should try gearing down from a high RPM in your coach. And by the way there is no way mmine would achieve 80 MPH in third gear. Maybe 55 to 60 would be it.

4000 RPM is about 55 mph in third with the 5 speed Allison.

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Old 04-29-2008, 04:49 PM   #50
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Originally posted by jdsr:
[/QUOTE]the last time I checked there were 5 accidents that NHTSA said were related to the NHTSA investigation. That was about 6 months ago.[/QUOTE]

Due to mechanical failure??

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Old 04-29-2008, 05:37 PM   #51
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dieselclacker:


"You maybe should try gearing down from a high RPM in your coach."

I usually only manually downshift when I know there's a steep downhill coming. Going uphill I usually let it automaticly downshift then I pull the gear shift down to hold it there. Sometimes I manually shift to 1st going up 7% grades when I drop to about 35 MPH. Otherwise it won't automaticaly downshift til I'm about 30MPH. That brings the RPMs up to close to 5000 in 1st gear. I rev it high but I don't want to abuse it by downshifting when it might put it up to 6000 RPM.

Quote "And by the way there is no way mmine would achieve 80 MPH in third gear. Maybe 55 to 60 would be it."

"4000 RPM is about 55 mph in third with the 5 speed Allison."

Thanks for that info. I suspected my GM tranny was geared a little higher than the Allison but I never could get anyone to tell me how fast it would reasonably go in different gears.
My P-32 will reasonably go about
35 mph in 1st
55 in 2nd
80+ in 3rd at 4000RPM
maybe 140 in OD if it were'nt for the speed limiter and the engine could pull it.
60 MPH in 4th is about 2150/ 2200 RPM
80 MPH is 3000 RPM
I also think I get a little better gas mileage than most forum members report but mine only has a 18000 gvwr


I would like to have an extra gear right in between 1st and 2nd because I can pull some passes at 5000RPM in 1st but it can't pull 2nd gear.
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Old 04-29-2008, 06:29 PM   #52
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would like to have an extra gear right in between 1st and 2nd...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Max: You gotta go to Gear Vendors or some other after-market supplier for those kinds of upgrades. ED
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Old 04-30-2008, 08:21 AM   #53
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
Originally posted by jdsr:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>the last time I checked there were 5 accidents that NHTSA said were related to the NHTSA investigation. That was about 6 months ago.[/QUOTE]

Due to mechanical failure??

-Tom[/QUOTE]Tom, I was given a general answer by a supr at NHTSA and he said there were 5 accidents related/reported to this investigation. Thats all the info I got. Maybe if someone filed a fia we could get more. Just a thought
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:20 PM   #54
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Please Note

It has been brought to my attention that this thread has nothing to do with Workhorse or Workhorse brakes however it seems to have grown a life of its own and all of a sudden we're discussing Workhorse brakes under the title, "Brake Failure Kills 1 and Injures 6".

It has already been pointed out that the content of this post is well over a year old and as such it not relevant to the current discussion in the Workhorse Forum.

The fatality that occurred in this video is said to have been caused by blunt head trauma which is alleged to have been caused by a cabinet which detached from the wall as a result of a rollover.

I am therefore moving this post to the Motorhome General Discussion Forum and hopefully it will receive the maximum amount of exposure that BEBOP intended this topic to receive. This post is pertinent to all motorhomes and it should be seen by all iRV2 motorhome owners.

Thank you.
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Old 05-11-2008, 01:05 PM   #55
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I took the workhorse chassis to the Workhorse warranty shop and had the workhorse brakes and rotors checked by a workhorse certified mechanic and was relieved to be told there were no cracked workhorse rotors or frozen workhorse caliper pins or defective ABS pots.
AT 10K miles everything passed with flying colors.
They told me that the majority of brake problems were generated by in experienced drivers with their first Motorhome or RV.
I have been driving heavy RV's since 1979. Maybe that is why my brakes don't have any problems.
This is the best chassis of the many I have had over the years.
Bebop
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:53 AM   #56
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This will always be a debate as to training of drivers of RV in general, not only MH but 5th wheels and TT as well. We drive I 40 between Arkansas and California once one week and twice the next. We see many RV's that don't have a clue what the laws of physics are when it come to stopping their rig. The trucking industry for years taught that you go down a grade in the same gear it took to climb it, now with aero dynamic bodies and radial tires with less rolling resistance they recommend that you descend a grade a gear or 2 lower than what you climbed it in. Select the right gear at the top of grade and stay in it. Stab braking is the way to go if you need to maintain a safe speed, do not ride the brakes down a grade! Remember you can come down a grade a thousand times to slow but only once to fast!
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