Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-03-2015, 08:57 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC
Posts: 6,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxwell18 View Post
I called a RV repair shop asking about brake inspection and was told that they would inspect the shoes without removing the wheels. If they had to remove back wheel it would take two hours per wheel? I questioned him he said sometime it takes that much at $90.00 per hour. Maybe I'm missing something but I think I should find another shop.
You don't give much in the way of history in your post as far as how long you have owned the coach, mileage etc.
Here is my response based on My Experience.
I bought my coach used with around 60,000 miles on it. In the first year of use, I had squealing brakes and a clunk when coming to a stop.
I had it into three truck shops to have the brakes inspected. All did a visual inspection and adjusted the actuators and claimed the brakes were fine but the condition continued and eventually morphed into a grinding sound coming to a stop.
This time I took it into my local RV shop and instructed them to remove all the drums and call me when they are ready for inspection. Well, they called and I went to inspect. Found All the shoes showed cracking due to overheating. Some were so bad they were actually ready to break loose.
The drums were All scored beyond resurfacing. The RR axle seal was leaking and soaked the shoes.
This is what a visual inspection will do for you without removing the drums for inspection. As far as time, 2 hours, in my opinion is not unreasonable to do a proper inspection.
So, with all new shoes, drums, springs and rear axle seal, my brakes are Like New and perform as they should.
If your brakes are performing as they should and you are the original owner and the shoes are not worn out (by looking from the backing plate) then I likely wouldn't have the drums removed.
But, if you are not the original owner and you have Any suspicions that there may be a problem with your brakes, I would pay the $300-400 to remove the drums and confirm the condition The Right Way...

Your Choice.
__________________

__________________
Dennis & Carol
2003, 4006, 41' DutchStar, Spartan, ISC 8.3L W/BanksPower - 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake. And the 04 Bird, Sunshine Car.
dennis45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-03-2015, 09:14 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
FIRE UP's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 5,254
Dennis,
First, I just had my right front wheel/tire/drum off a month or so ago, to check things out prior to short, about 350 mile trip. And, I truly don't remember if I saw any remnints of any grease I applied to those roller areas. There was no accumulation of any dirt/debris etc. on or around those though.

All the brake shoe components looked fine during that inspection. Now, yep, it has been over 15K and, I doubt any of that original grease is in fact remaining. As for your statement of "nature of the beast", I don't think I meant it was offensive to me, I just think that, based on the operation of any brake system, be it hydraulic, or air or any other type or style, that any governing organization, NHTSA, DOT, DMV or any combination of those, would allow for anything less than a consistently perfect operating brake system with no "over time" developing flaws.


Now, that doesn't mean that some (flaws) don't develop. Yep, they sure do. The industry and, us, deal with what's presented to us.

I appreciate your nice comments on my abilities and knowledge of air brake systems. I've never been to school on them or, do not have any air brake certificate. I've just been around them for a dozen years on fire trucks, delivery trucks and now motor homes. I try and read all I can, learn from folks I worked with and, on here. I've always had to do all my own repairs etc. It's the only way I could afford anything. So, it paid for me to learn what I could, along the way.
Scott
__________________

__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 01:20 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Dtwallace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,141
Sir, when you say you lube your rollers and the clunk goes away, I'm wondering if you are lubing the roller axle, or the outside of the roller surface that contacts the (S) cam?
The later makes a mess and could contaiminate your brake shoes.
The intent of what we're saying here is cleaning and then hand lubing the roller axle surface with a quality grease along with periodical lubing the (S) cam shaft bushings, that clunk should never reapear no matter how long you store your coach. Sticking brake operation is in no way normal for these systems.
__________________
Dtwallace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 01:17 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
FIRE UP's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 5,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtwallace View Post
Sir, when you say you lube your rollers and the clunk goes away, I'm wondering if you are lubing the roller axle, or the outside of the roller surface that contacts the (S) cam?
The later makes a mess and could contaiminate your brake shoes.
The intent of what we're saying here is cleaning and then hand lubing the roller axle surface with a quality grease along with periodical lubing the (S) cam shaft bushings, that clunk should never reapear no matter how long you store your coach. Sticking brake operation is in no way normal for these systems.
Dtwallace,
Not sure who you're directing your comment to but, if it's me, I'll tell you exactly what I do in servicing those brakes and components. First off, I've been doing this stuff for decades and, there's logical ways of doing and approaching things here. For one thing, I wouldn't remove both the tire/wheel AND THE DRUM all in one piece, IF YOU PAID ME TO! I've got the tools and equipment to do it that way but, WHY?

You're messing around with twice the amount of weight you need to. The front alloy wheel/tire combo weighs close to 140 lbs. ALONE! And the drum hovers around 50 lbs. or so. Second, I'm not in a race to complete this service. So, I take my time in removing the tire/wheel combo, then, I remove the drum. I use a motorcycle lift for that drum. It handles the awkwardness/weight etc. with ease and, it's got wheels on it so, that drum simply glides away from the hub/brake assembly with no real effort from me.

Now, I then back down the slack adjusters to the point that, the S-cam and rollers are easily removed. At that point, everything is cleaned up, buffed off with a wire brush and anything else that's needed for cleaning of things. Everything at that point, is closely inspected which, takes a matter of minutes. Then, I apply some grease, VERY SPARINGLY, to any and all moving/touching/pivoting parts.

Now, this always cracks me up when folks say "you'll contaminate the brakes when using grease on the parts around the shoes." Well, yeah, sure you will if you EMPTY A GREASE CARTRIGE on those parts. Geesh, all that's used is a tiny amount on the parts that touch. It's enough to keep any parts from grinding on each other and, any roller movement is eased too. I've had my drums off a few times and, NO CONTAMINATION of the shoes exists.

Then, when it's all put back together, the drums, which been inspected, are re-installed. I then place two lug nuts on and tighten them SLIGHTLY! Then, I adjust the slack adjuster(s) to the point the brakes lock up, ONLY TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE CENTERED IN THE ARC OF THE DRUM, then I back them off ever so slightly to the point where there's slight, amount of drag, as the drum is rotated. It's EXACTLY THE SAME PROCESS as anyone's used on car brakes for a zillion years.

The "Drag" I leave is a feel thing. You cannot describe it. DRAG, to some, might be barely able to turn the drum, with maximum effort. While to others, one could barely tell it's touching the drum. The results you want, provide the least amount of brake shoe travel, while still maintaining the small clearance between the shoes and drums, when not being used.

This is another reason I do not couple the tire/wheel/and drum all together when I'm doing this kind of work. The tire get's in the way while I'm working there and, the weight of it and the wheel, presents a different FEEL IN DRAG, when I'm making the adjustments. AGAIN, I'm in no hurry when dong this kind of work. I don't care if it takes me extra time to separate the tire/wheel combo from the drum, I got the time.

So, after all the adjustment(s) are made, and I'm sure all is ok, I then re-install the tire/wheel combo. I have a 4' long, 150-600 lb. Click-type Proto Torque wrench for tightening the 450 ft.lb. lug nuts. This whole process of removing the tire/wheel combo, then the drum, inspection, cleaning, lubing, re-assembly, adjustment, and drum and then, the tire/wheel install, takes me, oh, around maybe around 3-4 hours or so. Then, I'll do the next side, maybe the next day, no hurry.
Scott

P.S. Dennis,
Just wondering, you stated that you had a couple of inspections done by repair facilities and "they" stated all your brakes were fine. Then you took your coach to an RV repair facility and were called when it was time for YOU to inspect your own brakes. It was only then that you discovered a leaking rear hub seal??

Most of the time, those present issues long in advance. So, I don't know the time frame between the last Truck repair facility did it's inspection and, your RV repair facility and you, did yours but, about 99.99999% of those hub seals don't just blow out, in a short amount of time. They start to leak and, get progressively worse, over time and, many, many miles. What I'm saying here is, by the way you describe your experiences, you ran into some shoddy techs at the truck repair facility that they did not see and or report of any leaking rear hub seals, during your brake inspection. Just kind of wondering here.
Scott

Below are a couple of pictures of mine, during a leaking rear hub seal event. I noticed mine was leaking on one of my inspections but, I was closing in on a departure date and, I knew from experience, I'd have a bit of a time getting the seal in the short time before we departed. I determined the leak was not something I needed to deal with immediately. So, we went on our trip. The total was about a month and, around a couple thousand miles.

After resting up on the return of the trip, I attacked that wheel seal replacement. In the picture of the brake shoes involved, you can see there was a tiny amount of contamination of oil on them. One can of "Brakleen" is all that was needed to EXTRACT that contamination from the shoes.

Anyway, just thought you'd like to compare what you found vs what I was up against and dealt with.
Scott




__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 01:25 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 28,386
We have all wheel disk brakes. Guess I need to crawl under and take a look at them since, before this rig, we've always had drums and I know how they work and how to service/check them.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 CR-V
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 06:09 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC
Posts: 6,441
Fire up, the OP,s question was weather it was worth it to have the drums removed as opposed to a visual inspection from the backing plate. My point was if you are the original owner and know that the brakes have not been overheated , an outward visual might suffice. But, I'm sure you will agree that the ONLY way to do a proper and through inspection is to remove the drums.

I am a licensed Motor Mechanic since 1967. I spent the first years of my career in the Automotive Repair industry and then on to Heavy Equipment in the Petroleum Exploration industry and then the last 20 years in the Natural Gas Compression Industry.
Point being, I have seen, serviced and repaired a lot of equipment including brakes and specifically Air Brakes so I do know a few things. But having been there, done that, at my age, I'm not really excited about R&R of 22.5" wheel assemblies and tend to rely on others for this type of maintenance.
Both shops that "Inspected" my brakes were reputable shops but I kinda think we're not really interested in beyond the point of looking past the baking plate and seeing there was lots of material left and just took the easy route to say all is well.
When I took it into the last shop, I insisted all drums be removed and before proceeding, I wanted to inspect for myself because I knew ther was a problem but up to that point, getting no results to fix it.
I have no doubt that if I had insisted on removing the drums at any of the first two, we would have found the same condition and the end result would have been the same.
I have the experience to know what I require. The OP on the other hand must rely on others to do the right thing for a fair price and if I am correct, this is why he made this post in the first place to get advice from this forum as to wether he should spend the money for the brake inspection.
It's all well and good for us Brake Experts to try and one up each other on how to do a brake job when in reality all he wanted was the time of day, not how the watch works.
Sorry for the rant, sometimes old guys have too much time on their hands.
__________________
Dennis & Carol
2003, 4006, 41' DutchStar, Spartan, ISC 8.3L W/BanksPower - 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake. And the 04 Bird, Sunshine Car.
dennis45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 08:24 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
FIRE UP's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 5,254
Dennis,
Well Sir, it's apparent that you've got some time behind a wrench or two and maybe even a couple of screwdrivers. As usual I get out of hand when I try and explain things or, a situation or, an operation. The old cliché, "A picture is worth a thousand words" well, I have tendency to not only paint a picture but, a whole magazine. Many people on here have jabbed me about my long winded posts.

But, I've gotten a few nice comments on how I've taken the time to explain something. Oh well, you can't win them all. You weren't "ranting", just saying what you were thinking. Nice to deal with you and your experience. Hope the OP learns as he reads yours, mine and other experienced RVer threads and posts.
Scott
__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 08:46 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
dennis45's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC
Posts: 6,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRE UP View Post
Dennis,
Well Sir, it's apparent that you've got some time behind a wrench or two and maybe even a couple of screwdrivers. As usual I get out of hand when I try and explain things or, a situation or, an operation. The old cliché, "A picture is worth a thousand words" well, I have tendency to not only paint a picture but, a whole magazine. Many people on here have jabbed me about my long winded posts.

But, I've gotten a few nice comments on how I've taken the time to explain something. Oh well, you can't win them all. You weren't "ranting", just saying what you were thinking. Nice to deal with you and your experience. Hope the OP learns as he reads yours, mine and other experienced RVer threads and posts.
Scott
I used to have an apprentice that had a long winded quality and that is where I coined the phrase "All I wanted to know is the time, not how the watch works". Having said that, he was one of best people I ever worked with because of this quality. Never had to second guess.
Now, perhaps you can tell this old dog how you manage to get more than one photo into your post. I tried putting them into the four slots but all that comes out is the last one.
__________________
Dennis & Carol
2003, 4006, 41' DutchStar, Spartan, ISC 8.3L W/BanksPower - 2013 Honda CRV, BlueOx Baseplate, Aventa Bar & Patriot Brake. And the 04 Bird, Sunshine Car.
dennis45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 09:09 PM   #37
Senior Member
 
CampDaven's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 14,446
Blog Entries: 1
Brake inspection without removing wheel

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis45 View Post
I used to have an apprentice that had a long winded quality and that is where I coined the phrase "All I wanted to know is the time, not how the watch works". Having said that, he was one of best people I ever worked with because of this quality. Never had to second guess.

Now, perhaps you can tell this old dog how you manage to get more than one photo into your post. I tried putting them into the four slots but all that comes out is the last one.

Dennis, I use my iPhone or iPad and have attached 15 or more at a time. And by putting a carriage return between pics the all show in order without touching the file number. Like this
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByiRV2 - RV Forum1444010891.678857.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	76.9 KB
ID:	108827
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByiRV2 - RV Forum1444010914.889576.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	107.3 KB
ID:	108828
They also show up upright and in highest density.
I have no idea how it works on a PC.
I am fulltime and travel enough to not worry about my brakes
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!

http://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 09:55 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
FIRE UP's Avatar


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Out there, somewhere
Posts: 5,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis45 View Post
I used to have an apprentice that had a long winded quality and that is where I coined the phrase "All I wanted to know is the time, not how the watch works". Having said that, he was one of best people I ever worked with because of this quality. Never had to second guess.
Now, perhaps you can tell this old dog how you manage to get more than one photo into your post. I tried putting them into the four slots but all that comes out is the last one.
Dennis,
I use "Photobucket" as a cache for all my on line photos I want to share with anything I post in threads/posts. I up load all the photos I think I'll use for my posts and, they remain stored there, for future use.

When I post a thread on a subject, and I want to add photos, I usually (as you've seen) type my post/thread and, add the photos at the end. Well, all I do is, open another browser, log onto Photobucket, (you'll need to establish a username and password.

Then, once you've up loaded a few photos, you'll automatically have a "library". You click on the word "Library" at the top and it will show all your photos, in pages. as you hover over any one in particular, there will be a drop down list on the left side of the photo you're on at the time. One of the words will be "Share". You click on that one and, another drop down page will appear.

There will be about 4 options with that list. The one I use is at the bottom. It's the choice for adding that photo to what ever blog, forum, etc. that you're presently on. click on that bottom option and, it will briefly state: COPIED.
You then go back to the forum you were typing on and, at the bottom, under your written thread, you right click. You'll see the drop down and the word "paste". You simply paste it right there. Now, all you'll see is the description of the photo you copied, not the photo itself. Then, I hit "enter" and, it moves the cursor to the next line.

I then go back to photo bucket and, close out the drop down I just used and, look for another photo to copy and paste. I do all that I just explained to you, again, for the next one, the next one, the next one etc.

When you finally are done posting as many as you choose, you simply click on the "submit reply" at the bottom, like you already do.

Once yours post appears on the forum, it will display all the photos and not the descriptions. Hope this helps some. Good luck.
Scott
__________________

__________________
2004 ITASCA HORIZON 36GD, 2011 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 Toad '08 GL 1800 Gold Wing
Retired-29.5 yrs, SDFD, Ham - KI6OND
Me, Karla and the Sophie character, (mini Schnauzer)
FIRE UP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brake



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Installed my M&G Brake system, easy stuff! FIRE UP Toads and Motorhome Related Towing 53 03-25-2017 07:53 AM
Brake Flush - W24 Dual Wheel Removal vettenuts Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 11 05-25-2015 09:28 PM
Exhaust Brake: Don't Leave Home Without It I90Tom Newmar Owner's Forum 4 05-02-2015 07:57 AM
4 wheel drive or 2 wheel drive for 5th wheel merlins Trailer Towing and Tow Vehicles Discussion 27 08-22-2014 03:40 PM
Checking MH tire pressures with/without removing wheel covers? mikecosgrove Forest River Owners Forum 3 01-22-2014 01:01 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.