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Old 06-04-2015, 01:15 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hikerdogs View Post
I agree with jeryan59. There is a world of difference in the quality (and cost) of many of the systems in a $500,000.00 coach and a $100,000.00 coach. Through my research I have found that less expensive motorhomes generally use lower quality refrigerators, water heaters, microwaves, heating systems, entertainment and lighting systems.


They have 1 or 2 house batteries as opposed to as many as 12 batteries. They have lower powered inverters that are connected to fewer outlets and appliances, and need smaller and less wiring for power distribution. They have a smaller (if any) generator) and in some cases don't even utilize a transfer switch.

In addition many options are not available on less expensive motorhomes. It's unlikely you'll find a washer and dryer, dishwasher, roll out storage compartments, exterior entertainment systems, power awning(s), and air suspension.

I'm sure there's a larger profit margin on a half million dollar coach than there is on a hundred thousand dollar one. It's no different than comparing the cost, quality and amenities of a Mercedes S550 to a Hyundai Sonata.
Huh
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a half million $ coach that has 1 or 2 house batteries, no generator, no washer/dryer, no power awning, and no air suspension!
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Old 06-05-2015, 08:20 PM   #30
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Poppycock

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I really do appreciate the myriad of responses, but some of you just aren't listening. I am a student of human nature however, and I assure you (and will refer back to this assurance) that this will pass again before this board. Life is very amusing but more so if we could have a thousand years.

I have absolutely no intention of buying a used rig and then trading up/down/sideways etc. I know what I want to do, mainly boondock (wild camp) with maximum self sufficiency. Not haughtily, I have worked hard and view this as my reward. I am going to buy what I need and what I want.

I need:

Solar
Aqua hot or similar system for hot water/coach floor heating
All electric with propane backup
One bathroom (what is all this bath and a half stuff anyways in a 200 sq ft home?)
Big tires, two stage jake brake, air cushioning
Other stuff

Size issue, 43 feet is ok for boondocking in Quartzsite and many many many other locations. And it is true that we need to avoid some perfectly quaint and charming smaller state parks, but hey... I heard a higher percentage of flashers might frequent these parks. (But if I can't get into them, I have heard of nude sunbathing near Quartzsite.)

I have read all the articles about the convenience and technology regarding side-view, rear-view cameras and other video conveniences, which are all well and fine. I would suggest that increasing the capability of these video systems would be quite simple with arming software and dual sided 50 mm canons (yellow or red colored water). This could be used to hunt down not only the misguided RVer with an initial 1996 rig "to find out what they need", but better the misguided blogger who sent them on their erroneous ways.

I think we all need to readjust our thinking. Get away from the "used RV first" mentality. I secretly think many of them now realize they have a very expensive RV to sell. If they had planned correctly, they wouldn't be offering this advice. The life experience of buying an RV, selling it at a depreciated value, buying another one and doing the whole thing over again is a little more self-flagellation that I wish to do. If I could get some sort of climax, I might think it worthwhile, but no.

So, if you think I am wrong, or if you think I have been too harsh, please let me know. But I am within 6-18 months of buying a Newmar, American Coach or Entegra with the things I need. I am not going to do it for the name. I am going to resist giving 90 day notice tomorrow.

So yes, I am going to buy new and with many of the things I need, hopefully all. I just don't know if I can do that without a pre-order, hence the initial purpose of this post. Can we please try to stay on point?
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Old 06-06-2015, 07:47 AM   #31
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Patriot65
Maybe somebody else isn't listening? I remember wanting to get as far away from other people as possible when I retired. Then things changed--which means I changed. You will learn, but its probably gonna cost. Anyway, some have given you sound advice but you aren't ready to take it in. (I am sure I was the same.) Good luck with knowing exactly what you want/need whilst completely changing your lifestyle into something you have never done before.
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Old 06-06-2015, 10:32 AM   #32
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Here is my take on the 3 you're discussing:

Pricing is going to be very close across the board.


Customizing in order of most to least;

Newmar- truly custom cabinets and moving things a round (there are limits)

American- several options

Entegra- minimal options


Highest level of insulation;

Entegra

Newmar

American

These are just differences, no order.

Type of floor heat;

Newmar/American electric grid 120 volt only

Entegra uses water lines from the Aqua Hot

All 3 use a boiler for water and heat, but;

Entegra/American both use Aqua Hot- 1 electric element, 16 gallons of fluid

Newmar uses Oasis- 2 electric elements, 8 gallons of fluid

Chassis;

Newmar/American- Freightliner

Entegra- Spartan

As of now Newmar is the only one using a steerable tag, you have to decide if that's important to you.


Given you only want 1 bathroom, eliminates the full wall slide models. That levels the field there.

Build style;

Newmar/Entegra both use hung wall construction.

American uses a laminated wall

Warranty;

American/Newmar 1 year

Entegra 2 years

None of them build an all electric with propane back up. Diesel will be the only other fuel source. It's what the genny and boilers will use.

None of them will provide you with a truly accurate solar system. This will have to be a third party item. AM Solar is a company to look at.
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Old 06-08-2015, 08:14 AM   #33
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Order an RV or buy stock?

A very useful post PDR John. I am still researching heating differences for the floor and hung versus laminated walls. Other items you mentioned as well. You are right on in everything so far and I am obviously reading your other posts to learn more about what you know.

My initial take for this thread is that Entegra comes "as is" and I just gotta like it. Newmar could be the most customizable unit of the three, but again I really like American Coach. I am starting to understand some of the differences between the three manufacturers, but I obviously have a lot of work to do. I cannot make a choice now. I have decided to not look at other manufacturers (Monaco/Winnebago/Tuscany/etc). Can I go wrong with the manufacturers I have selected to pursue (Entegra/American Coach/ Newmar)? I doubt it and I see no reason to create more work for myself.

Suggested earlier in this thread, tire kicking is obviously mandatory . Two major shows that I thought I should attend are Sep in Hershey and Tampa in Jan (thanks Steve Ownby for that Tampa lead, others appreciated).

My timeframe to purchase at this point is before fall of 2016. I could easily place an order at one of the shows. The biggest challenge will be to avoid moving that date closer to the present considering the enthusiasm. I am busting to burst free of my chains. Um, do you sense my desire??? I'm an ER doc (ABEM) practicing in the East and getting ready to stop and embark on a personal dream of many years, after many years of hard work. I have been an avid backpacker, photographer, skier, hiker, tent camper and hunter all of my life. I am ready to enter a life of further exploration, but situated around a home base of luxury. I know nothing of the west, but I have much experience with difficult conditions in the east. I am very excited.

Time exists, but not a lot. Earlier stated, what is know is that needed and that wanted. Duration of ownership is expected at more than 10 years, using the unit for full time living.

I want a luxury tag axle rig, with state of the art systems for comfort and power main and backup. My limit would be a Mountain Aire or a less expensive coach. I am developing a knowledge for the systems that I need, and I will post specifics as they develop. Right now I am unfortunately in wait mode, but searching silver linings. I am still very busy, but I have other personal fun stuff to research now.

I really hate to bore again, but I intend to plan this purchase and do it. one time. I do not want to go through the stress of buying and selling even one additional time, much less another time. I seek luxury and functionality and despite my lack of experience, believe a one time purchase of an RV can be planned.

(Useful as well were your notes on propane/solar, but I had already realized they would need to be my own stand alone systems after purchase. Side issues such as these offer learning and design possibilities that can be approached concurrently generating much additional interest.)

Thanks very much for the post.
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Old 06-08-2015, 08:34 AM   #34
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All three of your target coaches are built within a few miles of each other in the Elkhart, IN area. It would be worthwhile to make a trip for the purpose of visiting each manufacturer and seeing the build process first hand.

For full time living you should consider making hydronic heat (AquaHot or equal) a requirement.


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Old 06-08-2015, 04:50 PM   #35
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Excellent ideas, adding factory tour(s) to the list.

Aqua-hot or similar hydronics yes, important. Interesting that Entegra uses the Aqua-hot and others have separate systems. Something to be said about simplicity, but perhaps the other designs offer backup in the form of a second system. Those are issues to be looked at.

Regardless, neither use propane furnaces, cutting back on humidity.

All three rigs have big slides with heavy components. Worried about the stability of the slides.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Patriot65 View Post
Excellent ideas, adding factory tour(s) to the list.

Aqua-hot or similar hydronics yes, important. Interesting that Entegra uses the Aqua-hot and others have separate systems. Something to be said about simplicity, but perhaps the other designs offer backup in the form of a second system. Those are issues to be looked at.

Regardless, neither use propane furnaces, cutting back on humidity.

All three rigs have big slides with heavy components. Worried about the stability of the slides.

I believe American Coach also uses AquaHot brand. Newmar uses another system.


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Old 06-09-2015, 08:08 AM   #37
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Two Questions

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Originally Posted by Sidewinder4 View Post
My two cents:

First, the last two post had great advise.

I recently read an OP to buy your third coach first. Did not make sense at first, but now I think I understand the point.

Trading an RV for a new RV. The game is to low ball your currenlty owned RV on the wholesale side and give you a discount off the new coach at high retail. So rent a couple of RVs first and hone your knowledge:

Class C will get you to desire size and give you the gasoline experience; helped me understand the desire for a larger floor plan.

Class A renting is expensive but will give you the feel of the 43 foot driving experience. Your goal of 43 feet pretty much leaves diesel pushers as your power source for moving the coach down the road. Gasoline Class A's have not surpassed the 40 foot mark that I know of yet.

Some things to research for your taste and lifestyle: Floor plan, options like AGM batteries instead of deep cycle batteries, 2000 watt or larger Pure Sine Inverters, all electric coaches (induction cooking and convection microwave cooking), extra receptacles for your lifestyle, refrigerator/freezer outside coach, TV & entertainment center outside coach, satellite reception if desired (in motion or stationary), Three 15000 BTU ACs (a must in a 43 footer IMOP), Residential refrigerator inside of coach, MCD automated blinds, beneath floor heating, solar panels, tank heaters, and now 2016 models have an optional emergency exit door and passive steer tag axel. I am just mentioning a couple of the big items I either now know about or have and appreciate that I took the time to make sure I have.

To my point: If your research is done well, I would then recommend going and buying your $400,000. rig. Bartering a discount of 25% plus, and working with multiple dealerships will most likely work out for your best deal. However, once you add a trade-in in the bartering mix, you just arm the dealership with more bartering power in my way of thinking. The only way around this, would be to sell your rig privately then go buy the new RV.

Your question of pre-order vs. existing inventory: it can be viable if your patient and are willing to go anywhere in the Unites States to pickup, but to get your exact coach that fits your needs exactly will be a roll of the dice, $400,000.00 will get you the coach of your dreams IMOP, go pre-order.

Reality is the only obstacle, we get the itch to purchase a new RV, get impatient, and then dealerships come to our rescue for our trade-in and new coach.

Just saying.

The Dutch Star and Mountain Aire are frontrunners, leaning towards the Dutch Star. A listing from RVTrader.com shows several 2016 models available. One 4318 that looks absolutely gorgeous (with that emergency exit in the back bathroom suite and tag axle steering). MRSP is $415k, and with a range of 25-30% discount, should cost between $273-290k.

The Mountain Aire is significantly higher and I am trying to justify the cost. The Aire comes with a 500 HP (vs 450) engine, and is a couple of inches longer. And is in the luxury group, but I must say the DS looks very good in the pictures online. Tire kicking may change my mind.

Both units would have close to many of your suggestions. I could design a solar system with AGM or lithium batteries and add communication/connectivity options as I need.

Two Questions

What do you think the chances are of finding a stock holdover of a DS 4318 at a fall show at bargain prices (no trade-in)? Anybody have experience with Newmar Dealers at year end?

And do my numbers sound right or is it blasphemy to the RV Gods to mention specifics?

(It was really 3 questions, so shoot me.)
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:31 AM   #38
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Build to order or purchase off the lot?

Depends.. If the floor plan you love is on the lot...Buy it.
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Old 06-09-2015, 12:48 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Patriot65 View Post

Two Questions

What do you think the chances are of finding a stock holdover of a DS 4318 at a fall show at bargain prices (no trade-in)? Anybody have experience with Newmar Dealers at year end?

And do my numbers sound right or is it blasphemy to the RV Gods to mention specifics?

(It was really 3 questions, so shoot me.)


Can't say on the hold over, Newmar only builds as they are ordered, so hold over aren't as common with them. I've never dealt at year end.

Your numbers are correct to everyone I've ever met and told me their discount. We got 26% back in 2012 on coach with custom cabinets.
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:41 AM   #40
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I'm beginning to get the picture with Newmar (and I like what I am seeing). A factory tour might seal Newmar as my choice. Just tell me please which one.

I am just not sure whether to go the added expense of the Mountain Aire (over DS). I understand engine size, layout and more inches. I just wonder if anyone on this board can justify added thousands to the base model, DS vs MA. 294" vs 288" Freightliner chasis, same Aqua-Hot and same for many other options as well. I don't see a lot of difference. Only a little bigger?

Anybody weigh in on this?

I cannot find a good side by side comparison online from the manufacturer.
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:57 PM   #41
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The price difference between DS and MA is around $100,000, for that you get (I can't even name them all);

Heavier chassis

Bigger engine and transmission, these are a huge chunk of money by themselves

"Higher grade" furniture, villa vs flexsteel

"Higher grade" finish on cabinets and counters

Taller basement compartments

Full coach control using SliverLeaf panels, front and rear

Those are the big ticket items I noticed. If I was to reorder from Newmar right now, I would price both models exactly how I would have them build. Each getting the same custom cabinets and optioned close to the same and make my decision from there.
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:43 AM   #42
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If I was to reorder from Newmar right now, I would price both models exactly how I would have them build. Each getting the same custom cabinets and optioned close to the same and make my decision from there.
I have contacted a couple of dealers to start to design what I need in MA and DS and then decide between the two. And after I have had an opportunity to see some rigs with the quality I desire eyes real.

I've asked for 35% discount off MRSP upfront. We'll see how that goes, but considering it would be a sure sale with a big deposit, there might be interest on their part.

I must admit that I really don't like the games played with this MRSP/markup/discount bullturdiness. It is the most unpleasant part yet encountered.

Flipside is the preponderance of good in human nature. Maybe we can come to a deal that is fair for me and nets them reasonable profit for easy work.

I sure would like the MA, but $100k.... That's an entire RV to some people. I shouldn't have gone to the MA gallery. Como ellos dicen en espanol, "Que belleza!"
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