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Old 06-13-2011, 09:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by georgetown350 View Post
Jim I don't see any continuous markings on solenoid. The solenoid is only supposed to energized from the alternator when the engine is running.
The part number you posted is a continuous duty solenoid.
The one that Bob posted, Trombetta 974-1215-011-09 is the one used in my knight, it is a 100 amp continuous.

If I ever replace mine, it will be with a 200 amp unit, such as one on the page RJay posted.

Depending on the power management system, that solenoid can be energized a LOT. It can be used to charge the house from the engine alternator, or to charge the coach from the main house charger and shore power, or... sometimes "just because."

In my Knight, when switching off the main battery disconnects, I hear that solenoid drop out when I switch off the last battery, always, and it doesn't matter which order I switch the batteries off!

The only time I've noticed it not energized is if I let the batteries "go down" and then fire up the diesel, it will stay off for up to an hour while the coach batteries charge before energizing to charge the house batteries too.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:37 PM   #16
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If you haven't already, you might want to check out a "latching" relay? They use no power when closed (or open) and are often used as battery disconnects.

Intellitec Battery Disconnect Relay for Sale - PPL Motor Homes
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:40 PM   #17
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I think it's tied to alternator output. No sense tying the batteries if they aren't being charged.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #18
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The alternator does charge the chassis battery so if I tie them together ( I think you meant connect with cable or move lead wires to one side of solenoid) then they should both charge off the alternator.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:44 PM   #19
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Sorry for the confusion in terminology. Yes, you would connect them together. The chassis battery will be paralleled with the coach batteries and the alternator connected(common) to both.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:16 PM   #20
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isolator replacement

I have the same problem and picked up an isolator with silver contacts at NAPA (for about $60). The problem is that the lead from the auxilary start switch is always hot, indicating a bad switch. This however is going to be a problem as I have not been able to locate a similar rocker type switch or can not figure out how to get the other one out of the dash.
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:30 PM   #21
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Hi kayo,
An isolator is different than an relay or solenoid. With a isolator you can charge both batteries but you cannot connect them together in the event you have a bad/low chassis battery.
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJay View Post
Hi kayo,
An isolator is different than an relay or solenoid. With a isolator you can charge both batteries but you cannot connect them together in the event you have a bad/low chassis battery.
This is NOT a functional characteristic of the isolator solenoid itself. The solenoid (relay) is indeed a standard continuous duty solenoid. The circuitry involved with the closing of the solenoid is what determines whether or not the batteries are connected together at any specific time. When NO charging source (either alt or converter) is present the solenoid drops out (opens).

That controlling circuitry is called Bidirectional Relay Delay circuitry.

The current handling capabilities being bandied about on this thread, refer to the current capability of the interior contacts.

The OP's problem was the aux/start switch applying a constant 12+ VDC to the pick coil making the solenoid very hot and eventually burning it out. It wasn't the current passing through the contacts that was the problem. 60, to a 100, amps is plenty for the solenoid rating.

Some folks who have the Trombetta isolator have installed a voltage dropping resistor in the pick coil path to prevent it from overheating.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:07 AM   #23
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THIS is what Winnebago uses. It's more expensive though.
There were some threads a couple of years ago about failures of these solenoids and one guy got in touch with Thrombeta's technical service people and was told they have a 15 volt version that will be more reliable than the 12 volt version. Alternators put out up to14.8 volts or so and the 12 volt coils can get pretty hot.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:35 PM   #24
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Had an appointment to fix it but turns out they don't have the solenoid in stock. So I canceled until they get it.

Going on a long trip two weeks from now>>> will use the Genny lots for air conditioning and battery charging... should be OK because all I'm using while driving is the fridge.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:35 AM   #25
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Leaving for that big trip today with bad solenoid still in place. So the house batteries for now do not get charged from alternator ( appointment for repair is scheduled for when we return from trip) Quick question.

We are boon docking three nights on route to our destination. How strong a drain with the refrigerator be ( running on propane) while traveling? We will be using the Genny when ever we stop and as it gets hotter ( headed to Florida) we will use the Genny for air. When not using the Genny will it be OK to run the fridge all day providing we run the Genny at the end of the day for a couple of hours to replenish batteries??????? I'm guessing it would be just like boon docking in the desert, running fridge on propane etc.?
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:57 AM   #26
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You should be fine running the refrigerator all day and running the generator at night, just be sure to run the generator long enough to fully charge the batteries.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:34 AM   #27
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isolator relay

To answer your question. Yes, go ahead and jumper them or turn both battery banks off for safety and then stack the large cables onto either post of the relay if they will fit or bolt them together and tape them up. No need to take apart at night as long as you are sure you won't run 6 batteries down. Start the generator first thing in the am and let it run a few minutes because it takes less to start it than the engine.

Here is some information that applies to many models of Monaco and Hr's.

First, that relay does run hot. It draws about 1.5 amps and will burn your fingers. It is a known failure item. I am on my second one. I'm an ET and took mine apart and cleaned them up. The next one however will have silver contacts and not draw as much current to hold it in. That said the mfgr of the solenoid, Trombetta, has a silver contact model available for a few dollars more. The original is only $30. They repair very easily if the coil is not burned out.

So here is some useful information.

Bi-Directional Charger Card
12 Volt Relay Operation
Purpose:
Any charging source (shore power, engine alternator, generator, etc.) will charge up both sets of
batteries, but the batteries will be isolated during discharge. This helps preserve the ability to
start the engine and recharge the entire system even if the house batteries have been
discharged. In short, this device performs two functions:
1. It keeps the Chassis and House from discharging each other.
2. If either set of batteries is charging, the second set will also be charging.
The following three examples describe what an operator should expect to see under normal
operating circumstances:
1. No charging source is connected, but some appliances are running.
In this case, the two battery systems will be isolated. One of the battery systems may fully
discharge (due to some current draw), but the other battery may still be fresh.
2. One battery is discharged, and the other battery is connected to a charging source.
The Dual Charger Isolator will connect the two battery systems in order to charge both of the
batteries.
3. Two or more charging sources are connected to the battery systems.
The two battery systems will be connected, and the combined current from the two charging
systems will charge both the batteries.
Additional information of interest:
There are two delays and voltage thresholds:
1. There is a ten second delay where the batteries are disconnected after the ignition is
turned on. (This is to keep the engine starter motor from drawing current from the House
batteries.)
2. There is a two-second delay for on/off cycling. Off is below 12.2 volts. On is over 13.3
volts.
These two second delays keep the systems from connecting and disconnecting when there are
surge loads for short periods of time that drag down the battery voltage.

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL MODELS OF COURSE:

My manual recommends running the generator to charge the batteries instead of letting the alternator do all the work. They are not designed as primary chargers for 6 batteries and have to work hard to refill those.

In any case, the solenoid is a 20 minute job to replace and rather cheap as parts go.
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Attached Files
File Type: pdf Battery Compartment.pdf (363.9 KB, 49 views)
File Type: pdf Bird Relay.pdf (1.50 MB, 47 views)
File Type: pdf Bird specs.pdf (117.3 KB, 35 views)
File Type: pdf FRONT DISTRIBUTION.pdf (84.1 KB, 39 views)
File Type: pdf Front Roadside Panel.pdf (523.7 KB, 29 views)
File Type: pdf Solenoid ( Trombetta ) for batteries.pdf (112.5 KB, 53 views)
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:43 AM   #28
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Good replies thank you very much...

If this trip goes well without the working solenoid I may decide not to repair it hmmmm....

thanks again...

if anyone is interested I will post again when we get to Florida.... Monday or Tuesday.....
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