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Old 08-19-2005, 07:52 PM   #1
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I can use your help with my petition. If you are interested................

I have read of many rvers with Quality Control problems. If you have invested money for your RV and have not been able to use it because it has been in repairs for as long as you have owned it, then you need to read my proposal for help with creation of a Federal Law. I have a proposal for a new law to be sent to Congress to include the whole USA not just some states as is now with the Lemon Law. If you are interested in who I am and what I have been doing to get this enacted, check out this link
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/15358118.cfm

If you would like to sign the petition, you must enter your email address or your signature will not be counted or posted. However, you need to know that your email address will not be posted on the site. The email addresses are only used to verify signatures.
The petition link....
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/rvprotectionact
New Proposal Site................
New site
Thank you, Toni
PS. <span class="ev_code_RED">Contact me at........</span>
My Web Site
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:52 PM   #2
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I can use your help with my petition. If you are interested................

I have read of many rvers with Quality Control problems. If you have invested money for your RV and have not been able to use it because it has been in repairs for as long as you have owned it, then you need to read my proposal for help with creation of a Federal Law. I have a proposal for a new law to be sent to Congress to include the whole USA not just some states as is now with the Lemon Law. If you are interested in who I am and what I have been doing to get this enacted, check out this link
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/15358118.cfm

If you would like to sign the petition, you must enter your email address or your signature will not be counted or posted. However, you need to know that your email address will not be posted on the site. The email addresses are only used to verify signatures.
The petition link....
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/rvprotectionact
New Proposal Site................
New site
Thank you, Toni
PS. <span class="ev_code_RED">Contact me at........</span>
My Web Site
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:49 PM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tonigil: I have read of many rvers with Quality Control problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've read the same about the Space Shuttle.

IF the perfect RV could be created, how many of us do you figure could afford one?
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Old 08-20-2005, 12:23 PM   #4
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Quite frankly, I'm tired of Manufacturer , Dealer Service, Salesmen, and Product Quality Bashing.
Here's how I look at it.

RV MANUFACTURERS: I don't believe there is a manufacturer out there that is trying to put out a low quality RV. They are trying to give the buyer the most features for what the buyer can afford. We all want all the "Bells and Whistles" we can get for our dollar spent. Some buyers purchase the best money can buy, money spent not that important. Other buyers purchase based on limited money available in order to experience the same great RV experience. Go into business yourself and produce a low quality product, see just how long you stay in business. You get what you pay for.

DEALER SERVICE: Sure there is a wide range of dealers out there. In some areas good help is more readily available and the volume of service allows for the cost of ongoing training. The volume of work also provides for good cross training and gaining knowledge from repetitive experiences on the job.

Some dealers are located in more remote areas where experienced help is hard to find or replace. Because of the more limited exposure to the endless list of things that may need attention from time to time the level of expertise may not be there. But for many of the "Day In Day Out" service needs (flat tire, burned out light, blown fuse, etc), aren't we glad their there?

SALESMEN: Salesmen are full of information. Information gained from training, information gained from experience. Its up to us to listen and use this information as we see fit to make a buying decision. We all must be able to recognize a good salesman because it appears we can recognize the bad ones.

For most of us buying an RV is a major purchase. If you are unprepared and uninformed when you go out shopping for your RV, shame on you. You may as well just send a check to an RV dealer with the note attached "I will be in next week to pick up what ever this amount of money will purchase from what you have in stock.

QUALITY: OK so there is always room for improvement, but at what cost? The more "High Tech" each component gets, the more it will cost. The more "Bells and Whistles" installed in the RV results in more opportunity for "things" to go wrong. Then how many locations will there be qualified to service and support that product.

Our "wants" have gone wild. Can't turn a hand crank to lower a window anymore. Have to "Push" a button, but when the "magic" stops because of a blown fuse, bad wire connection, or worn switch, complain about service time because we didn't want to bother to do some minor checking ourselves.

These RV's are very complicated, assembled with many complicated and high tech components (remember that's what we want) and that's what we purchase. Then we bounce them down all kinds of roads in all kinds of weather and plug them in to all kinds of outlets. It might be wise to educate ourselves as to what we purchased, learn something about operation, maintenance and minor repair, to lessen the number of visits to the RV Service Center.

Because of the nature of the RV beast we have and where we take them, there is room for all kinds of things to maintain or go wrong. Ok, some of us don't have the interest or ability to learn the basic "Ins and Outs" of an RV so that we could handle many of the things that will need attention. But if we are going to bounce around the boondocks in these things, if we can, maybe we should try.

OK, Take your best shot.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:53 AM   #5
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No shots from me, I agree with you. Well said. Everything is a compromise, you're absolutley correct when you said the more complex, the more the cost. RV MFGs have to balance what the customer wants with what they are willing to pay for. They wouldn't be in business for long if they were out to cheat the consumer.

We all have seen people that you just can't seem to please, no matter how hard you try. Not everyone is perfect, sure mistakes can and are made. That is what warranties exsist for, the MFG is trying to ensure their product works as it was designed. Everything has bugs in it, ever have a house built? How long was the punch list?

I have a hard time with sweeping generalizations such as: "Anytime a sales person's lips are moving, they are lying", "All dealers are crooks" and "RV MFGs push out just junk". If that was so, why would they warranty anything?

Fire Extingusher at the ready!
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:12 AM   #6
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I agree with Logthumper and Old Snipe...sort of.
All I'm asking for is for people to do their jobs right the first time, regardless what they manufacture, house or motorhome or whatever. The "punch list" should NOT be very long. Just seems there is not much pride in workmanship anymore. There are exceptions, but they are few and far between. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:38 AM   #7
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I agree with both, I have seen new units on dealer lots that definately should not have left the factory in the condition they where in ( torn coushion on chair, door off track, a/c unoperable). Where was quality control? Granted the door off track may have come from transit but torn cushion, a/c? Salesman said not to worry would be covered under warranty... who would consider a unit on a lot like that brand new from a manufacturer? Doesn't say a lot of the manufacturer does it.
Yes it is the responsability of every coach owner to at least know the basic operations of there coach. I hear people complain about hight labor costs yet they won't even think anything about taking there rig in because the turn signals or something else dosen't work and not even have tried to check anything themselves including a fuse.
Guess I got off topic here sorry, just venting
Derek
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:48 AM   #8
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Logthumper hit the nail on the head. I do PDIs and a lot of customers are only interested in the TVs, DVD players, and remotes. I especially don,t understand why someone needs a remote controlled thermostat in a 25'TT, give me a break. Anyone in this lifestyle should be constantly reading and studying about their rig and be able to fix some of the minor problems. Now I'll standby with y'all and absorb the flaming.
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Old 08-23-2005, 12:50 PM   #9
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Captain Bud,
I agree with you. As a PDI tech for an RV dealer I've seen alot. Your right, they want the comforts that they have in there stick built homes in there RV's. Some will want to know the inter workings of the RV so they can do minor repairs, some will dive into the manuals to see just how things work, but a majority of others concern themselves about how the entertainment system works, do the a/c's work correctly. Then you have the 30amp coach with two air's and they wonder why they can't have the frige on 120, h/w heater on 120 and both ac's on then turn on the microwave and oh I forgot the coffee maker also. When you try to explain the in's and out's, they say "our salesman said it would work!".

Those are the one's that need to just spend there money on hotels/motels, airplain tickets and car rentals. No headaches.

off the soapbox for now. There is nothing better than sitting out at night looking at the stars and seeing stars and not smog.
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Old 08-25-2005, 07:07 PM   #10
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Okay guys and gals. Just food for thought.
I buy a toaster at Walmart. I pay under $20.00. I bring it home and it doesn't work. So I bring it back to WalMart and get my money back. Now I spend $65.00 and get a better one. It doesn't work soooooo I bring it back and get my money back...
Now lets compare. I buy a $120,000 Class A. I have it home 2 weeks and find a list of problems that were not visible on the long PDI I had done. Not visible because everything worked on PDI. But, as apliances were used for a period of time the wires that had screws through them heated up and caused appliances to fail. In one case causing a fire.
Now, I pick up my $70,000 Class C, did a thorough PDI. But, it wasn't raining and it did not rain for a week after I picked it up and low and behold we did get a lot of rain and my Class C is flooded.
Or...I buy a TT and there were absolutely no problems for 3 months. But, I didn't use the plumbing because we couldn't go anywhere due to personal problems. Now we have the oportunity and away we go. A pipe bursts and the whole TT is totally flooded. Back to the dealer, fix the pipe and away we go again. Guess what??? The darn pipe burst again. Back home, back to the dealer. Now what? Soaked rugs, floors and water running out the door. Yep, pipes burst again and now the dealer can't help. The Mfg says bring it back to the factory. 1400 miles away and get back home and guess what? Yep...again.
Now what do you do? Smell of mold. Floor is spongy and can't use the RV.
Okay guys now what?
Think I am kidding? I have a folder full of these stories. And you know what else? Not just one Mfg. There are many of them that I have kept records of these horrible stories.
I must say that I am a happy camper. And I have no problems with mine. But, I do know and have seen pictures and can't believe that we don't need a new Law. They don't have to make them more expensive. They just have to make them right the first time. I can tell you documented stories of people that have lost a lot of money and Have done a PDI to the best of their ability. But what you can't see, you can't check.
Thanks Toni
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Old 08-25-2005, 07:23 PM   #11
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Sorry, Toni, but I agree with most of what the others have said on this thread. As with buying anything, from your example of a toaster to a house, it is caveat emptor (buyer beware). If something breaks or doesn't work right in the 25-year-old house I paid $300,000 for last year, I either fix it myself or I call a tradesman who knows how to make the repair.

I've owned a variety of RV's for over 30 years, and have had my share of problems... which I learned to either repair myself or hired a person with the knowledge to make the repair.

You'll have to try to move your proposal along without my endorsement... just my 3 cents worth.
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Old 08-25-2005, 07:48 PM   #12
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If I bought a house, for $200,000, they have inspectors in our state to check for leaky roof and plumbing and more. And if something happens in the first year, we are covered because of the inspection. So although I do appreciate your opinions, I have to ask you a question. What is a consumer to do when they have a brand new 2 month old RV sitting in their driveway and no one can fix it. And it SMELLS OF MOLD AND MILDEW and has spongy floors.
What would you do? Would you pull the flooring out and the plumbing and start rebuilding your RV? Even if it under Warranty?
I would love to know what the solution to this problem may be.
I know if it were me, I couldn't do it. I am a 65 year old woman and my husband is 81.
I believe that if the RV were advertised as specifically having plumbing, it should work. If it is advertised as having a refrig, TV, heater, et al., They should work as advetised.
We are talking brand new units. Right off of the line. If I thought that I could build one, I wouldn't spend that kind of money to buy one.
All I am saying is don't advertise on the Web site and in brochures and the dealers that this unit is livable.
I know someone who has paid over $200,000 and had to sell it at a loss to buy another full time Class A. Buy what you pay for????
What are we paying that much money for?
Why would anyone intentionally purchase a unit that is not livable?
Sorry, I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. But, that is okay because that's what makes America so great. Our opinions. I just hope that none of us will ever have to use this Law. Thank you, Toni
PS. I am not Bashing dealers or Mfg. If you notice I did not nor will I disclose any names because that is not the point. There are many Mfg and dealers who are extremely helpful and do try to help our fellow rvers.
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Old 08-25-2005, 07:52 PM   #13
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I just want to thank all of you who have signed the petition because in a month, we are now up to 226 signatures.
So I guess there are 226 people who agree with me on this.
Thank you one and all. I do appreciate all of your opinions even the negative ones.
Toni
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Old 08-25-2005, 08:25 PM   #14
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....when some public figure gets one and starts makeing the shortcomings public then we will get better quality...until then?...geofkaye
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