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Old 10-20-2013, 07:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bruceisla View Post
I assumed you were posting a picture (#2) of an Isolation Relay but I can't really tell from the picture. Do you know the function of the relay you replaced?

Got a part number on the relay?

Does one large battery cable go to Chassis battery and the other large cable go to House battery? ... or do the cables go somewhere else?

You may have a Diode Isolator ... got anything like this (about 9" x 4" x 3"):

I believe the cables are the feed to the 12 volt and the circuit is interrupted by the switch in the step well. The lines are shown in my schematic.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:35 PM   #30
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http://i40.tinypic.com/3147csp.jpg

Hopefully this one is better...
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:41 AM   #31
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http://i40.tinypic.com/3147csp.jpg

Hopefully this one is better...
It would appear the relay is a Disconnect Relay. If you don't have another relay that is about that size, and you don't have a Boost Switch, and both the Chassis and House batteries charge when the engine is running, then you probably have a Diode Isolator somewhere.

So ... your best options are still a small 120vac trickle charger, a Trik L Start, or an Amp L Start.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:18 AM   #32
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Agreed, and now that I have the advise of some experienced operators, that is the direction I will go. My greatest concern was that I did not want to be hooking up a charger or other component running against a failed device somewhere on the coach.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:16 AM   #33
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Bruce, ask and you shall receive. Notice, on the last page of the attached diagrams, that the Aux Start/Isolation/Charge solenoid (electrically placed between the House and Chassis batteries) is continuously picked any time there is charging voltage present from either the alternator or from the converter. Picking the solenoid bridges the batteries together just the same as using the aux-start switch (no tooth pick required). The tooth pick was suggested, tongue in cheek, to get the batteries charged while the real fix was discovered.

This design has been used by Fleetwood and many others since the early '90s. The BCCs and BIRDs are built by RV-Custom Products and Intellitec.

BTW - I am the (Just Lou) who posted in the RV Forum thread you provided the link to. Small world.
Thanks .... Yes, that's an Intellitec BIRD circuit ... however, in early versions of the BIRD (roughly 2000 and earlier) the solenoid is not continuous duty and the hold voltage is not the same as the pick voltage ... it is a lower voltage. In later versions they provided a continuous duty relay (that failed frequently) and then provided the much more expensive heavy duty "Big Boy". Applying continuous full voltage, by wedging the Boost Switch (a momentary contact switch) is not a good practice.

From Intellitec early BIRD version specs:

"operates by sensing the level of voltage on the chassis 12 volt system. When this voltage goes above 13.3 volts for approximately 12 seconds, as happens when the engine is running normally (normal alternator output voltage is approximately 14.4 volts), it will close the isolator relay providing charging current to the coach battery. The controller engages the relay at full voltage and then reduces it allowing an intermittent duty cycle relay to be used continuously. When the ignition switch is turned off, the relay will open immediately. If the voltage should drop below 12 volts for more than two seconds while running, the relay will dropout. This might happen when the alternator is not able to supply sufficient
current to all of the loads."
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:34 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bruceisla View Post
Thanks .... Yes, that's an Intellitec BIRD circuit ... however, in early versions of the BIRD (roughly 2000 and earlier) the solenoid is not continuous duty and the hold voltage is not the same as the pick voltage ... it is a lower voltage. In later versions they provided a continuous duty relay (that failed frequently) and then provided the much more expensive heavy duty "Big Boy". Applying continuous full voltage, by wedging the Boost Switch (a momentary contact switch) is not a good practice.

From Intellitec early BIRD version specs:

"operates by sensing the level of voltage on the chassis 12 volt system. When this voltage goes above 13.3 volts for approximately 12 seconds, as happens when the engine is running normally (normal alternator output voltage is approximately 14.4 volts), it will close the isolator relay providing charging current to the coach battery. The controller engages the relay at full voltage and then reduces it allowing an intermittent duty cycle relay to be used continuously. When the ignition switch is turned off, the relay will open immediately. If the voltage should drop below 12 volts for more than two seconds while running, the relay will dropout. This might happen when the alternator is not able to supply sufficient
current to all of the loads."
Fleetwood uses primarily RV-CP BCCs that have always had a continuous duty solenoid since the early '90s. The Intellitec BCC (patterned off the RV-CP BCC) has always incorporated a continuous duty solenoid.

The externally packaged BIRD, (sold by Intellitec) that you quote, may use a lower holding voltage, but does NOT supply the solenoid, except when paired with the "Big Boy". They had to accommodate those coaches that used an intermittent duty solenoid as their aux start solenoid.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:07 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by loulong View Post
Fleetwood uses primarily RV-CP BCCs that have always had a continuous duty solenoid since the early '90s. The Intellitec BCC (patterned off the RV-CP BCC) has always incorporated a continuous duty solenoid.

The externally packaged BIRD, (sold by Intellitec) that you quote, may use a lower holding voltage, but does NOT supply the solenoid, except when paired with the "Big Boy". They had to accommodate those coaches that used an intermittent duty solenoid as their aux start solenoid.

Thanks, I'll take your word for it.
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