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Old 04-12-2016, 09:24 AM   #1
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De-winterize - water pump - help

Hello..

Looking for some guidance on where to start on my problem..

So, this past winter, I decided to winterize myself.. I pulled the manual and followed it to a "T"... and this isn't my first time.. just the first time with the new RV...

Here is what I did last November -
  • I closed the water heater bypass and drained
  • I blew out all the lines with compressed air
  • I opened the winterizing siphon valve and added pink stuff
  • I poured pink stuff in all the drains
  • I drained the fresh water tank and opened all low drain valves
Fast forward to last weekend -
  • I decided to use the winterizing siphon and added a water/bleach mix to sanitize the lines (prior to opening the water heater bypass)
  • I opened the water heater bypass
  • I closed all low point drains
  • I used city water pressure to "prime" the entire system
  • I "flushed" all lines using city water pressure
  • I filled fresh water tank with bleach/water solution and let stand over night and drained..
Ok... I've basically reversed all the procedures from November.. I thought "priming" the system with city pressure would be better than letting the pump work extra hard...



Now, I have an issue where the pump will not shut off.. I know it was building pressure and would shut off when I was using the winterizing siphon (moving around to the different faucets).. It doesn't run "full on".. its more of a low rumble, if you will.. it sounds different when the water is off, verses when the water is turned on (like a chugging sound)...


Again.. this isn't my first rodeo... I've switched to the proper tank setting.. I've closed all low point drains... I've closed the winterizing siphon...



I initially thought the pump running was it building up the proper pressure in the system.. but I don't have the "spitting - sputtering" of air in the lines when using the water.. so, I'm a bit confused on what could be happening..


Any suggestions ??



I thought tonight when I get to the RV.. I was going to check the pressure valve on the water heater.. maybe there's trapped air that i missed ??
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:36 AM   #2
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Is it still trying to suck out of the siphon, instead of out of the thank?

Joel
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:42 AM   #3
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How long have you allowed the pump to run? On mine, it takes a while for all of the air to work out of the system.
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Birder View Post
Is it still trying to suck out of the siphon, instead of out of the thank?

Joel
Nope... closed off the siphon valve when I completed the bleach/water flush of the lines..
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Old 04-12-2016, 10:07 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by USMCRET View Post
How long have you allowed the pump to run? On mine, it takes a while for all of the air to work out of the system.
I don't know for sure.. but maybe a couple minutes.. I was concerned about "burning out" the pump... I figured, to a certain degree, water is used to lubricate the pump, so I didn't want to risk letting it run for a long period of time without water running thru it..
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:11 AM   #6
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If this is a typical diaphragm pump, running dry wont hurt it at all. If it is trying to fill the water heater tank, it will take a while.

Joel
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:22 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by J Birder View Post
If this is a typical diaphragm pump, running dry wont hurt it at all. If it is trying to fill the water heater tank, it will take a while.

Joel
I THOUGHT I filled the water heater using the city pressure (so I didn't have to let the pump fill it).. I am going to check on this tonight...

I'm hoping this is the case.. what worries me is the sound the pump makes while this is happening.. as I've said... its not running like it would when a faucet is turned on... that's whats got me so flustered
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:28 AM   #8
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The only problem I can see with your winterizing ; is that blowing the lines with air to the city water hook up ; does not clear water out of the pump valves , the pre-pump debris screen housing, or the pickup hose from the fresh tank.
I'm thinking you have frost damage to the pump, or the debris housing.
If you don't pump RV anti-freeze through the pump during winterizing then you should remove the pump and store it inside you house to prevent this problem and blow back from the pump connection to the fresh tank to clear any low spots that could have water sitting that might freeze there.

NOTE: Do not ask how I know any of this.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:34 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
The only problem I can see with your winterizing ; is that blowing the lines with air to the city water hook up ; does not clear water out of the pump valves , the pre-pump debris screen housing, or the pickup hose from the fresh tank.
I'm thinking you have frost damage to the pump, or the debris housing.
If you don't pump RV anti-freeze through the pump during winterizing then you should remove the pump and store it inside you house to prevent this problem and blow back from the pump connection to the fresh tank to clear any low spots that could have water sitting that might freeze there.

NOTE: Do not ask how I know any of this.
I did both... I blew out the lines and then I used the pump and winterize siphon to add the pink stuff...
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Old 04-12-2016, 01:23 PM   #10
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I had an issue recently when I was camping that may be related. We hooked up to city water at the campground and all was well. In retrospect the wife noticed it took a longer time than usual for the water to come out the spigots. When we were leaving we disconnected the city water, etc. and when we went inside to wash our hands the pump was on but no water would come out. At first I was wondering if the pump could have lost it prime and wasn't sucking water from the tank into the system. Checking the pump the clear hoses to it seemed to have water in them. I also checked the wires as I thought I might have knocked off a wire and the pump screen to see if it was clogged. Both were fine. The pump was running but not as loud as usual. We were on our way home so I turned the pump off and filled an empty jug at the campground water connection to use while traveling. When I got home I parked the RV at the storage area. The next day we were cleaning up and still the water wasn't coming out when the pump was turned on. The water we had in the half gallon jug was empty so to get water I put the jug under the master drain and opened it and filled it. A few minutes later I went inside and for the heck of it the turned on the pump and everything worked as normal.

My only guess as to what had happened are (1) there was a air pocket that locked things up and draining a half gallon changed it, or (2) there is a flapper valve inline some other than the spring loaded one at the water connection that malfunctioned and it isolated the pump so it couldn't build up pressure.

Getting back to your issue the similarities are the pump is running but not sounding the same and while you don't say directly there is no water coming out of the spigots. The issue may not be related to the de-winterization. I do basically the same de-winterization and this year I couldn't get water come out when the spigots were turned to hot. I checked the heater and ended up bleeding the air out of the hot water heater until water came out to be able to get water to come out of the spigots when turned on to hot.

Why not drain some water and see what happens.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Robmat View Post
Getting back to your issue the similarities are the pump is running but not sounding the same and while you don't say directly there is no water coming out of the spigots. The issue may not be related to the de-winterization. I do basically the same de-winterization and this year I couldn't get water come out when the spigots were turned to hot. I checked the heater and ended up bleeding the air out of the hot water heater until water came out to be able to get water to come out of the spigots when turned on to hot.

Why not drain some water and see what happens.
I get water coming out of the faucets without any issue (in fact, there is no spitting or sputtering like there is air in the system, that's whats confusing me).. but when I turn off the water, the pump usually stops.. but that isn't happening now.. I did "let off" some of the water thru the low drain point.. but that didn't do any good..

I too, am hoping to "bleed off" any air that may be in the water heater via the pressure relief valve.. I'm hoping I have an air pocket or something..

It was suggested.. that since the pump would stop when I was using the winter siphon.. to put the winter siphon into a jug of water and see if I have a bad valve or something.. that would eliminate the guessing..
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by oakcreekeric View Post

It was suggested.. that since the pump would stop when I was using the winter siphon.. to put the winter siphon into a jug of water and see if I have a bad valve or something.. that would eliminate the guessing..
Sorry for my question in the other post , I need to improve my speed reading skills, I guess when I read siphon , I skipped over that line.
My coach also has the factory winterize valves and A/F pick up tubing, and what I don't trust about the system as it sits in my coach is; the valves are above the fresh tank and their routing will allow water to remain in sections of the line between the valves and the fresh tank where it can freeze.
Like a straw in a glass of water, when you cover the end and raise the straw, water will stay in the straw until you allow air into the top.
Because the line to the fresh tank is higher than the tank , if it does freeze and develop a small split it will not leak water out , only allow air in so the pump can loose it's prime and draw air in with the water while running.
Use the pick up hose into a jug of water, and if the pump functions normally, then you'll probably have to replace the fresh line back to the tank.
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Old 04-13-2016, 02:52 PM   #13
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Eric, I had a similar issue last week. The pump continuously hummed but no water pressure and it wouldn't shut off. I disconnected the water feed line to the pump and ran air in ty o it to see if there was blockage...bubbles in the tank confirmed no blockage. Then I disconnected the water line on the pump that goes into the filter and coach...water gushed out. Hmmm, connected it back up and the system pressurized itself as normal and all is back to normal. I can only think there may have been something in that area blocking the flow. This was a Flojet pump. Good luck!
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:48 PM   #14
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Check the water pump filter. It should be between the water tank and the water pump. Mine cracked one winter.
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