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Old 07-25-2010, 08:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ZTedster View Post
Scarecoupe,

1- 130 psi
3- 138 psi
5- 50 psi
7- 135 psi

2- 132 psi
4- 130 psi
6- 135 psi
8- 140 psi

The first thing I did after failing smog was to run a compression test. I pulled all plugs, held the throttle wide open, and gave each cylinder 6 full compression cycles.

When I first changed all the plugs, I labeled all the old ones, inspecting each one. They all looked exactly the same. They were all tan with a thin film of carbon buildup. The plugs were a dark tan, a tad closer to being brown that tan, which leads me to believe the TQ was running slightly rich when he parked it 9 years ago.

The #2 plug had enough carbon buildup running up the side of the side of the electrode to a point where it closed the gap to about .020".

To further test #5 I shot about 1 ounce of motor oil (2 pumps from an engineers oiler can) in to the cylinder then tested it again. There was no change. Still 50 psi.

I put all the plugs back in, except for #5. The compression gauge was in it. I started the engine and it ran 50 psi at idle. I floored the accelerator and it went to 60 psi.

I used to compression gauges, one NAPA brand and one is a Snap On brand. Both gave identical readings in every identical test.

The exhaust has a slight chuffing sound at idle and idles kinda smooth at about 750-800 rpm, but when you drop it in gear, the idle roughens and there is a good amount of chuffing.

The vacuum gauge is rock solid at all times.

To eliminate the TQ you advised using the plug and wire from #8. Did you mean swap the cables and plugs, maintaining proper firing order, or swap the firing of 7 & 8?

I did swap the firing with 5&7 and also stuck 5's cable and plug on 7 and put 7's on 5, maintaining proper firing order.

Please advise.
ZTedster

Looking at your Compression test it would seem that #5 should be skipping,thats the lowest cyl of the engine. Recheck the firing order to make sure 5&7 are not crossed.Sometimes we miss things. we need 4 things to fire off that cyl, Air&fuel, compression and ignition, your missing one part and I suspect its ignition if #7 is not firing. I would recheck the firing order and make sure the Distributor cap is good.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:03 PM   #30
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My question would be is what is the compression of the other 6 cyls. Your comparing two adjacent cyls 50# and 130# and one that doesn't fire up. You should know what the average is on the other cyls. You failed the test because the HC was way out of wack. CO is mixture and HC is unburned fuel. You say that #5 has a burnt exh valve, I question that, could have worn rings.

If you brought it to my shop I would start with a complete compression test. Run the engine to warm it up, remove the plugs and keep them in order so you can look for soot (looking for a rich mixture) To eliminate the Carb. I would then replace # 7 cyl plug and wire from #8 cyl to see if the skip was gone. Still skipping I would invert the Dist cap and look for a tracer line from #7 pin to ground, going from the pin to the edge of the distributor edge. I doubt that the timing chain is the problem. I will be watching this thread to see how your doing. What ever you do,don't throw parts at it or you'll go broke. Good luck.

Leo
scarecoup,

Got the head off. The exhaust valve looks just like all the others. I cannot see anything wrong with it. I'm going to borrow a valve spring compressor to take it out and look at it.

When I think of it, when I squirted the oil in the cylinder the piston must have been close to TDC because some of the oil started running back out. So I may have had only 1 squirt of oil in that cylinder. Plus, looking at this exposed cylinder with that close to 45 degree angle, that oil could very well have puddled at the bottom edge of the piston, while the ring leak was at the high side of the piston.

If that is the case, then my test was a defective test which could not have revealed a leak in the piston from perhaps the 9 to 3 o'clock positions.

I'm thinking you are right. It is looking like it is leaking rings.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:04 PM   #31
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ZTedster

I'm suggesting you only remove #5 valves to check them.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:16 PM   #32
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ZTedster

I'm suggesting you only remove #5 valves to check them.
scarecoupe,

Okay. Pulled the valves on #5. Lapped the exhaust valve. Three fourths of the circumference had the soft haze from the grinding compound. One fourth did not.

I went to an automotive machine shop so they could grind the two valves at 4 bucks each. When I was showing them to one of the countermen, a mech behind him said, "That valve didn't come out of a 440-9." I said I had just pulled it myself!

He said the 440-9 mobile home heads had nickel valves that cost $55 each. What I had was a $7 valve. I asked how he knew. He said it has 4 keeper grooves. The 440-9 has 2 grooves, which are stronger.

I asked if he had a replacement. He did so I bought both and intake and exhaust valve. I just lapped them and they seal perfectly.

When I was cracking this engine open, I saw telltale signs saying someone had before followed the same path I was taking, i.e., and odd bolt here, and unfastened little bracket there, etc.

Sure enough, some mech had done a valve job for the original owner and cheaped it with the exhaust valves. He put the correct intakes in, but the inferior exhaust valves.

I want to do it right, but I bought the cheap valve. All I need is for this thing to get me 4000 miles to Alaska. Instead of paying 4 bucks to grind the valve I paid 7 for a new one. I think they will get me 4K miles.

Once I get up there and get work, then I will yank these heads and get them done properly. But for now I have to depend on wing and prayers.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:27 PM   #33
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Oh yeah, Rich, my pro bono mech, did a leak test on the head valves. He turned the head upside down on a stand, then filled the combustion chambers with diesel and blew through the ports with an air nozzle.

All valves were leaking to some degree or another, but the #5 exhaust valve was far worse.

Since the other cylinders are at 130, 138, and 135, I'm not too concerned right now.

I'll drive this baby nice and easy up there, at or below 55 mph.

I've had power steering fluid in the #5 cylinder all day. Not a drop has drained, but it only covers all but the last 3/4" at the top of the piston. The piston is at BDC but I cannot cover the whole piston as the fluid will just run out of the lower edge of the cylinder. I'll now jack up the side of the MH high enough for it to cover the whole piston and let it sit like that for an hour and see what happens.

I hope to heaven it doesn't start draining.

Everybody cross your fingers please!
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:49 AM   #34
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Jacked the left side of the MH up 12". Gotta go another 2 feet to get it ti cover the entire piston. That raises the pucker factor too high for my blood.

Tomorrow morning I'll get a small steel plate and a rubber plate to dam the bottom lip of the cylinder to I can pour enough in to completely cover the piston.

Tonight I'll rebuild the TQ and check that brake booster for vacuum leakage.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:10 AM   #35
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Question:

This motor has 40K miles on it.

Is there any way I should still be able to see any trace of crosshatching on the cylinders that originated from the Dodge factory?
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:17 AM   #36
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Are you saying that all cyl's are showing signs of cross hatching? I've never seen a factory engine that was torn down with cross hatching...maybe I missed that and I've had many engines torn down.
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Old 07-28-2010, 09:21 AM   #37
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Are you saying that all cyl's are showing signs of cross hatching? I've never seen a factory engine that was torn down with cross hatching...maybe I missed that and I've had many engines torn down.
I just came back from the machine shop that I've used for the past 45 yrs. They told me that yes its normal to see cross hatches on the cyls. I must of been sleeping. Yes the are two 440 Engines, one for Trucks one for cars. The engine you have should be the truck engine and yes the valves are different. The valves for that engine has the sodium filled exh valve because of the heat and the two middle cyls. run hotter than the out board cyls. The valves on that engine should have 2 groves on the stem for both intake and exh valves. The car engine has 2 on the intake and 4 on the exh. Intake list for $32.15,exhaust is $103.20. Check you valves that you removed to make sure of the engine. If the valves you installed new are wrong they wont last too long.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:32 PM   #38
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You nailed it, scarecoupe.

Thanks for the crosshatching knowledge.

I clean went over my head those four center cylinders have hot spots where the two exhaust valves are right next to each other. I just replaced one of the valves, so I'm sure the other three aren't far behind.

It pains me to get the cheapo valves, but I have no choice. I'm going to ferry these trucks to Anchorage as much of the way as possible.

Once I get established in Anchorage I'll find a good pair of 68-72 truck heads, have them dressed up real nice then swap them out with these.

It irks me that these pistons at TDC are still 1/8" below the deck. Darned smog motors.

Thanks again for the valuable info, scarecoupe. You are a big help.

Do you see any negative consequences to putting older heads on this low compression engine? I'll probably have to get a carb other than the 9212 it currently has. Might just get an Edelbrock carb and intake.

Would love to put headers and dual exhaust on this as well. These 440s sound sweet with their deep rumble when you put dual exhaust with quiet, hi-flow mufflers on them.
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