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Old 02-09-2006, 06:25 AM   #15
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Not being there to see coach the pics sure do it justice for the money you have spend a good mach could give you a workable coach. SOME of us don't buy new and hope to find something workable that will give us a start in the RV lifestyle. Like you say you have learned from this experiance like we all have with our first coach. I know someone will make this coach into what it can become, This MH must have been passing state inspections to be on the road. I have seen alot worst that people have started with. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask about any future coach before passing over that hard earned cash. "007"

98KSCA, 99MACA, 03 KSCA-3740- 8.1 Chev-- ALLISON Trans, now in good hands
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:58 AM   #16
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I only meant buying new is the only way you get a warranty without paying thru the nose. Most dealers dont even look at trades before buying them.They probebly just put it on the lot without looking at it.I feel for ya,been there.There is a lot of chance involved in buying a unit that old also.I hope it all works out for ya,and nobody else gets stuck with it,unless they are told about the issues.


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Old 02-09-2006, 08:48 AM   #17
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If you got the estimates in writing, get a lawyer.
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Old 02-09-2006, 09:25 AM   #18
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The dealer doesn't deny the estimates given. They just delayed beginning the repairs until my check cleared. Then I was told that $900 is now about $4200 and possibly much more. Sam Balzanna Jr. who appears to run http://www.balzannasrv.com said estimates are meaningless.

My hope is that I can sell it to a mechanic who understands and is knowledgeable about what needs to be done and get close to what I paid. I have no interest in even attempting to deceive the next purchaser.

I got a private email from a forum member who lives nearby and is familiar with dealers in the area. If others are in or near York County, PA/Lancaster County/or Maryland and have the time to look at the vehicle with me, I'd be most grateful. Because if I can't sell it quickly, maybe repairing it makes sense. I just don't want to 'throw good money after bad' and be worse off after trying to repair it.

The biggest hurdle keeping me from repairing it is not really knowing if the generator works. I'm staying about 50 miles away. I'll go back tomorrow to get more photos especially to show where the generator needs an ignition switch and wiring. If I knew the generator really worked, I'd be less hesitant on repairs. I was told there were only 220 hours on the generator. So I'm guessing there is a meter I can photograph.

Thanks everyone again for your replies.
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:39 AM   #19
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It sounds to me like the repairs exceed the cost of the MH? It is 28 yrs. old, I think it has served it's useful life.

What would you expect to put in repairs in a 1978 automobile?

Buying used is fine, I did with my first MH, but I wouldn't go back more than 10 yrs. or so.
Mike T., Snohomish, WA.
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:52 AM   #20
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I wouldn't have bought a 1978 automobile. The dealer was so convincing that this RV only had 61,352 miles on it, the generator had only 220 hours on it, and that EVERYTHING worked except what they listed in the repair estimates for $900 mechanical and $500 for RV.

Hindsight is often 20/20. I first contacted this dealer on 1/24/06 and purchased it in less than one week based on his assurances.

I realize now it was a huge mistake. So I am trying to sort out my options. Hopefully I can sell it to a mechanic. Or someone would want it to be parked permanently somewhere.

I don't know what costs would be involved to give it to a salvage yard.
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Old 02-10-2006, 05:57 AM   #21
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Just for the heck of it, maybe a shout out to the Better Bussness bureau BBB.com or another site "Rip-Off report.com where you can list your problems for ALL to see. They make a point of contacting the business for rebuttals. Its worked with others and I've used it myself. Also if you pick up a magazine or 2 like Motor Home you'll read many letters asking for help and intervention with brand new coaches that the dealers balk on making right. Good luck!
Tim ,Retired Police Lt. 2002 Winnebago Adventurer+16' Trailer
Harley Road King and Heritage Classic+,Trik-L-start,Hughes Autoformer. Blue Tick Coon hound
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:07 AM   #22
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You might check with the states motor vehicles. I know in Calif they have to do several items on your list before they can sell a used vehicle.

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Old 02-10-2006, 07:50 AM   #23
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If the dealer represented that everythign works except for identified items, than he is obligated to make those things be in working condition at the time of delivery. If the generator was described as working, then make him fix it. If he won't, consider an attorney, though the attorney fee may be more than the repairs.

Describing it as "safe to drive to Florida" is a wholey different matter. Safety deals with brakes, steering and such, not generators and things like that.
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition
Home is in the Ocala Nat'l Forest near Ocala, FL
Summers in Black Mountain, NC
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:33 AM   #24
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If you have a local TV Station with a consumer advocacy program you may be able to call them in. In Tampa Bay a call to 8 On Your Side is all it takes many times to get a businessman reluctant to keep his promises to suddenly find religeon and change his ways. A television crew has that effect on some people.

I ended having to call in the Attourney General on one car dealer who was misbehaving and although I did not get what I wanted I did have the honour of seeing a sheriff and his deputies chain up the guys doors and shut him down.

Don't give up too soon.


Neil V
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Old 02-11-2006, 04:47 PM   #25
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1) Does someone know the website for Dealer Regulations for Motorhome sales in Pennsylvania.

I found http://www.dmv.org then clicked on PA, but can't seem to find informaation about dealer regulations. Is it on another site?

2) Can anyone suggest a link about 'jumping title?' A relative that used to sell RVs and now sells cars told me to research this.

The dealer pretended his endorsed the title wrong by not signing it. The separate sales form clearly had his name at the top with vehicle details. After I was told the estimates would not be honored the dealer commented that he never signed the title which leads me to believe it was intentional.

3) In reading the agreement with the dealer again, I notice the last line of fine print which stated "Not valid unless accepted by Authorized Representative of ____ dba ___" I googled the company named and dba and found it was located many states away. They said they have no connection with the dealer that sold it. They guess the dealer just took some blank order forms, added their name at the top and hasn't read their own contracts during all the years they have been in business. Of course maybe this is intentional too.

4) I believe it could be said that I never took delivery as the dealer drove the MH to the mechanic nearby and told the mechanic to bill the dealer for all repairs. That I would be paying the dealer.

I'd like to find definitions of whether that constitutes not having taken delivery and what that means.

THANKS again for everyone's help. Hopefully I'll have a refund soon. I promise I'll be posting photos, asking questions online, and hiring an independent mechanic for the next purchase.
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Old 02-12-2006, 03:29 AM   #26
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Not sure if your term 'jumping title' just means he didn't register the title transfer (as you would do with an auto sale) to avoid having to pay taxes on the transfer.

Not too unusual for a 'dealer' to do this, as the next name on the transfer would be the new buyer (not the dealer). Any indication the unit may have been a consignment sale? Another question is does the dealer have anything in print, advertising, etc., that says 'we throughly check out all our used vech's prior to sale?

Suspect this is the language an Atty would focus in on if you wish to pursue the issue. One other tack to take, assuming the above is reasonably correct is your State Atty. General's office. Frequently they have a fraud division, or can refer you to the State department that handles this type of matter.
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Old 02-16-2006, 04:52 AM   #27
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...
Mechanical repairs for 1978 Ford Chateaux Camper Class C: (original estimate was $900)

2 front headlights and rings
1 bulb
oil change
air filter

front & rear brakes (dealer said it needed both brakes, mechanic now says it only needs one set - I think rear brakes)
Thermostat & Gasket
Exhaust repair - manifolds?
6 tires

Additional items
Carb - Baseplate + Choke Repair
Brake Master & Booster Assembly
Radius Arm Bushings
Battery Hold downs
Being in Ford Parts from 1968 to 1999 these repairs seem quite reasonable if you're indeed getting front and rear brakes, master cyl and booster. Those parts are quite expensive. The rest of the list is minor but labor to put the Radius rod bushings can be quite expensive in its own right.
Then we have the waterpump (part alone would be &gt;$100.00) and the labor to install the pump. Dealer didn't quote belts, but I would have installed new belts and upper and lower radiator hoses plus heater hoses (and depending on engine; bypass hose) as well.
Yes I can see mechanical prices going up if these were "missed" on the first pass.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...Repairs for RV: 1st estimate was 200-300, then $500, then later $350 for generator + $275 for steps. But the dealer who sold it to me and quoted the estimates said 'estimates are meaningless.'

Generator - wiring
Generator - switch
Generator - plug

Steps - $275 (they don't retract even though you can hear a noise when you push the button for them to retract.) If I get the RV repaired, I think I'd remove the steps for now and use some plastic steps I could buy at a store for now.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I lave less experience with the RV parts/repair business, just my own personal experiences.

Being in the car business for so long, I buy new. You never know what someone has just traded off.

For instance: I had a '99 Mustang Convertible GT, special 35th anniversary edition, fully loaded with every option available.
We drove it for 5 years, we loved it, then:
just after we made the final payment and it was ours the following happened:
1) First month after pay off: General maintance, hoses, fluids, brakes etc. $1000.00.
2) Second month after pay off: Battery, $150.00.
3) Third month after pay off: Rear end -- all bearings and one axle. $900.00.
4) Fourth month after pay off: Intake manifold, $1000.00.

While the intake was off, the mechanic noticed that the head was paper thin in one of the water passages, it would last another 6 months to a year, price of the head alone $1500.00 not incl. labor.

Next day we traded it off, let someone else worry about it.

Now... on the other hand, we bought a 2006 Crossroads Zinger ZT24FB, and had it for 6 months, and decided we wanted something bigger (read with a slide) and traded it for a 2006 Crossroads Cruiser CT28FB. Now, there was nothing wrong with the Zinger.

Sorry for the ramble, but you never know what you will find used.

Always---ALWAYS take a motor vehicle to an independant mechanic for a mechanical evaluation before you purchase. And, even then a mechanic would never catch a thin water passage in the head until it was too late.

Again, sorry for the ramble,

2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z-66 3.73:1

2006 Crossroads Cruiser CT-28FB
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