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Old 11-03-2005, 01:57 AM   #1
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I attended the Pomona, Ca. RV Show two weekends ago and came across a company selling the large diesel pusher air filters that were cleanable just like a "K & N". I like the idea of this, but I seem to recall that these filters pass alittle more dirt than the paper filters and can harm a diesel's injection system. Does anyone have any info on this topic?...pro or con.
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:57 AM   #2
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I attended the Pomona, Ca. RV Show two weekends ago and came across a company selling the large diesel pusher air filters that were cleanable just like a "K & N". I like the idea of this, but I seem to recall that these filters pass alittle more dirt than the paper filters and can harm a diesel's injection system. Does anyone have any info on this topic?...pro or con.
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Old 11-03-2005, 09:19 AM   #3
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Don,

Actually these oil type air filters trap more dirt than a paper filter.By using oiled cotton the dirt sticks to the material rather than passing through.Cotton is more porus than paper also allowing more clean air to pass through.

Mike
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Old 11-03-2005, 01:54 PM   #4
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I suggest you ask Cat or Cummins what they think of them. I believe you will find they suggest you not use them.
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:06 PM   #5
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I beleive most people who use them end up replacing sensors in the engine fronm the oil required to make the filters work. Also, I have never heard of anyone getting much more that 1 or 2 mpg diffrence with them. To me, that's too big of a risk of killing some expensive parts. I'd avoid them like the plague.
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Old 11-03-2005, 06:51 PM   #6
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Caterpillar does not warranty engines that have K&N style filters.

Why take a chance on ruining a $25k-$30k engine with something that won't increase performance or mileage?
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Old 11-04-2005, 05:08 AM   #7
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Modern diesel engines are very picky about dirt. The specs and tolerances are so tight, mainly due to emissions requirements, but also due to performance efficiency that Cummins states that 1 tablespoon of dirt will ruin an engine.

For years the construction industry has been using the Donaldson Cyclopack air filters. They're a great system and use centrifugal force to drop the heavy stuff before the paper filter element. We've blown these out a few times before replaceing them but every now and then you can see some buildup on the outlet side of the filter housing, where there should be none. This comes from sliding a clean filter into a dirty bore, improper tightening of the element, blowing out too many times rather than replaceing, etc.

My Allegro Bus comes with a Racor sealed filter element. It's a cyclopac, similar to the Donaldson, but it's a non-serviceable unit. Once it's time is up, it must be replaced. I was informed that these are being spec'd by the engine manufacturers because there's less chance of dirt getting into the engine from a sloppy service job.

If they engine manufacturers are being that careful about keeping clean air then I'd tend to stick with what they have. A $120 filter every couple of years isn't too bad compared to an engine rebuild. If a new filter came on the market that was a pre-filter, installed before the OEM filter, I'd consider it. But only if it offered some sort of advantage and frankly, I can't see any.
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Old 11-04-2005, 05:23 AM   #8
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I used to be in a National Guard Artillery Unit that had 8 inch self propelled weapons and other ammo and command tracks. The guns used an extensive cleanable cotton based air cleaners as that were cleaned with air pressure and not oiled. The other tracks used regular paper based air cleaners and these were cleaned with air pressure also. As long as they do not get wet both types seemed to work equally well.

Under the warranty act the K & N filter has to be the cause of the failure for a warranty claim to be denied. No engine company will endorse any after market product because they have not tested it is their usual statement.

If you have satisfactory service from your existing conponent I would not change it.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:59 AM   #9
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Charliez,

Actually the oiled cotton filter is more efficient at filtering dirt.No manufacture can void your warranty because you have an aftermarket part.The Magnussen/Moss act protects the consumer from such fraud.All diesel manufactures have experimented with different air filter materials,but paper is always CHEAPER!
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:41 PM   #10
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Oh Brazel:
Come on! I bet yiu think the old Franz toilet paper filter is the way to go too....cause the **** OEM engine mfgs are only out to take our money. Nothing but nothing filters better than an original equipment company like Donaldson or Farr (now Racor) or the like. Millions of $$$ have been spent by these folks to find the most efficient paper filter media used in the filter elements provided in our air filter system on our motorhomes. If you will not replace the air filter element in your motor home until the restrictor gauge (provided in all diesel motor homes) reads in the yellow, and I bet it takes two or three years for this to happen, your engine will remain extremely clean for very little money. Just dont f----- with it.

been in the diesel filter business for over 30 years...........
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:01 AM   #11
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Stretch,
If we are simply relying on the restrictor gauge,then why on motorhomes are the sensor located so far from the air filter.On all trucks the pick up for the gauge is right next to the outlet for the air filter.The farther the pickup is the less that gauge is going to move.Thus giving false readings.When we install any air filters on coaches,we redrill & mount the sensor to be more acurate.Or if your like me,I dont trust any plastic gauge I look for myself.What do you think?????
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:36 AM   #12
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If one insists on converting to an oiled cotton filter for a turbocharged diesel, I can only recommend that he/she either (1.) monitor the air intake tract downstream of the filter for dust and/or oil carryover or (2.) perform regular engine lube oil analysis to detect signs of "dusting" (typically, high silicon) before extensive damage occurs. Ideally, both 1. and 2. would be done.

Suffice it to say that experience with oiled cotton filters on the Dodge/Cummins forums is mixed at best.

Rusty
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