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Old 08-23-2010, 02:32 PM   #15
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Reporting back the outcome of talking to the wholesaler this morning, actually all day. However, the end result was he recognized and was honest enough to admit the mistake of the shipping people. They will be shipping the 16 ply tires I ordered and eat the cost of returning the 14 ply.

Today, honesty is an assumption we cannot make. As some on this site have said, "you can't trust anyone". As it turns out, you can trust some people if they earn that trust. Hopefully, when the tires arrive next week they'll be the right ones.

This was an interesting discussion that was very beneficial for me. It is obvious the manufacturer tries to build in more of a safety factor by putting H rated tires that have a total weight carrying capacity of more than 50K on our coach while the GVWR is limited to 44K. Actually, I agree that more safety is better than cutting it too close when you're considering the safety of family and the public, let alone the damage and inconvenience of a tire failure. Fortunately, I've never experienced that and don't want to start down that path.

Thanks for all of your input.
Dave
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by sucker View Post
I am buying a 2000 american eagle that has dry rot cracks in the michelin front tires. How much does the rig weigh and what type and size should I get. I Augusta, ga, where should I get them? thanks for any help.
The only way to know the real loads on your tires is to load up your RV with all the "stuff" you expect to carry such as food, clothes, pets, full fuel & propain and water then get on a good scale and get the loads for each corner not just the load on each axle or the total for all tires.

Once we have the actual loads then we can compare to the original tire size and load range and make informed suggestions.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:50 PM   #17
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Reporting back the outcome of talking to the wholesaler this morning, actually all day. However, the end result was he recognized and was honest enough to admit the mistake of the shipping people. They will be shipping the 16 ply tires I ordered and eat the cost of returning the 14 ply.

Today, honesty is an assumption we cannot make. As some on this site have said, "you can't trust anyone". As it turns out, you can trust some people if they earn that trust. Hopefully, when the tires arrive next week they'll be the right ones.

This was an interesting discussion that was very beneficial for me. It is obvious the manufacturer tries to build in more of a safety factor by putting H rated tires that have a total weight carrying capacity of more than 50K on our coach while the GVWR is limited to 44K. Actually, I agree that more safety is better than cutting it too close when you're considering the safety of family and the public, let alone the damage and inconvenience of a tire failure. Fortunately, I've never experienced that and don't want to start down that path.

Thanks for all of your input.
Dave
Glad you got the tires exchanged. You didn't mention if you ever got the corner weights for your RV.
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:03 PM   #18
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Glad you got the tires exchanged. You didn't mention if you ever got the corner weights for your RV.

Couldn't find a scale within resonable distance to do 4 corner weighing. However, I just returned from the local truck stop using CAT scales:

Front axle: 13,180
Rear axle w/tag 24, 40

When I saw how light the rear was with 3/4+ fuel, 3/4 fresh water, empty grey and black tanks, there was no need to weigh the rear tandem and tag axle separately.

All this being said, I think the 14 ply tires would have handled the weight. Thankfully, we will not have to see if that is true.

Dave
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Old 08-28-2010, 08:09 PM   #19
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Jim,

Thanks for your input. I'll go to a truck stop on I 85 very near here and weigh the coach first. And you're right, the coach came from the factory with H rated tires. So, other than weight, do you (or anyone else on this forum) see any other issues that would prevent me from using them IF for some reason we cannot remedy the situation? I agree with Ken. And hopefully he will offer to immediately send the correct tires. If I can be sure of the safety factor, its not worth getting into a pissing contest and getting upset to the point of my blood pressure going thru the roof. When I retired I left all that stress behind and will stand toe to toe only when someone is taking advantage of me or endangers me and my family. I believe it was an honest mistake.

Dave
In the time frame of your coaches build date, six owners of AE's were killed due to improper tires on front axles. The front axles and tires were campaigned on all coaches as best I remember these years later. I would not risk using tires less than specified load range (note use of plys is obsolete and meaningless as the tires do not in fact have the plys noted but a calculated equivalent)
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Old 08-29-2010, 06:10 AM   #20
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Ecker,

In an earlier post I mentioned that we put new 16 ply H rated tires on the front last year. Good thing too as it turns out the front axle weight is right at the load range of the tires.

That being said, no one on this thread has said anything other than weight matters when selecting tires. Even though the wholesaler has exchanged the 14/G for 16/H the weight on the rear axles (w/tag) says I could have run the 14/G tires. If there are other considerations, it would be good to know. Who knows, someone may be faced with the possibility of having to replace tires with what is available rather than having the luxury of waiting until tires are ordered.

Dave
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Old 08-29-2010, 08:45 AM   #21
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From my understanding, it's only an issue of weight. Our coaches are built so that they are almost at their GVWR when empty. A front axle rated at 12,000 lb might have 7,000 lb on one side. We're not running to the scales every day to check how our weight is balanced so we can know what tire pressure to run.

The thing that concerns me the most is making sure that my tires are not running with the air pressure too low, because then the tire can overheat and cause a blowout. If the tire is not heavy enough for the weight it has to carry, then the air pressure has to be kept really high, which can cause rough ride and poor handling.

It's nice to match the tire with the axle. If the front axle is 12,000, then if the tire is rated for 7,000, I know that the tire can properly handle the weight of that axle.

I am terrified of having a tire blowout. If a front tire blows, there's a very strong possibility that I won't live to talk about it. A few weeks ago, a big truck blew a front tire just a few miles from where we live. The driver managed to prevent the truck from leaving the road, and got it stopped on the highway. When the tire blew, it exploded into pieces and demolished the entire fiberglass engine hood. There were pieces of tire and fiberglass spread all over the highway for about 1/2 a mile.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:15 AM   #22
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Ecker,

In an earlier post I mentioned that we put new 16 ply H rated tires on the front last year. Good thing too as it turns out the front axle weight is right at the load range of the tires.

That being said, no one on this thread has said anything other than weight matters when selecting tires. Even though the wholesaler has exchanged the 14/G for 16/H the weight on the rear axles (w/tag) says I could have run the 14/G tires. If there are other considerations, it would be good to know. Who knows, someone may be faced with the possibility of having to replace tires with what is available rather than having the luxury of waiting until tires are ordered.

Dave
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Originally Posted by jimkate View Post
From my understanding, it's only an issue of weight. Our coaches are built so that they are almost at their GVWR when empty. A front axle rated at 12,000 lb might have 7,000 lb on one side. We're not running to the scales every day to check how our weight is balanced so we can know what tire pressure to run.

The thing that concerns me the most is making sure that my tires are not running with the air pressure too low, because then the tire can overheat and cause a blowout. If the tire is not heavy enough for the weight it has to carry, then the air pressure has to be kept really high, which can cause rough ride and poor handling.

It's nice to match the tire with the axle. If the front axle is 12,000, then if the tire is rated for 7,000, I know that the tire can properly handle the weight of that axle.

I am terrified of having a tire blowout. If a front tire blows, there's a very strong possibility that I won't live to talk about it. A few weeks ago, a big truck blew a front tire just a few miles from where we live. The driver managed to prevent the truck from leaving the road, and got it stopped on the highway. When the tire blew, it exploded into pieces and demolished the entire fiberglass engine hood. There were pieces of tire and fiberglass spread all over the highway for about 1/2 a mile.
First, every driver should acquaint themselves with the proper procedure to follow when faced with a blowout - short version - floor accelerator and get vehicle moving forward in straight line then slowly bring speed down. One can find videos describing this in more detail on Internet.

Second, Federal regulations at present do require that maximum tire rating match maximum axle rating. the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to
an axle shall be not less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of
the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label
required by 49 CFR part 567

It has been this requirement that leads to vehicle design that use tires available that are the closest match to axles and the ubiquitous forum statements about weighing your vehicle on each axle , etc etc. However, those of us interested in tire safety believe this requirement should be changed to require something in the area of 25% additional tire capacity. Discussions are ongoing with the NHTSA/ODI as I write. I'm attaching a recent paper written by Tom Bowman et al of NHTSA/ODI and given as a speech to Clemson University Tire Conference in April 2010; it is trying to encourage the added capacity in design sans regulations requiring it.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RQ08-004 closing report appendix 5-20-10.pdf (241.0 KB, 13 views)
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:24 AM   #23
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Ecker,

In an earlier post I mentioned that we put new 16 ply H rated tires on the front last year. Good thing too as it turns out the front axle weight is right at the load range of the tires.

That being said, no one on this thread has said anything other than weight matters when selecting tires. Even though the wholesaler has exchanged the 14/G for 16/H the weight on the rear axles (w/tag) says I could have run the 14/G tires. If there are other considerations, it would be good to know. Who knows, someone may be faced with the possibility of having to replace tires with what is available rather than having the luxury of waiting until tires are ordered.

Dave
Please check both Tire links in my signature. I have made numerous posts about the critical importance of knowing the real side to side loading for each axle on RVs. If you have more questions PM me.
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Old 08-29-2010, 06:07 PM   #24
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Even though the wholesaler has exchanged the 14/G for 16/H the weight on the rear axles (w/tag) says I could have run the 14/G tires.

Dave
Dave, do you know what your max axle weights (GAWR) are? On my coach (43' Mandalay w/tag), it's my front axle, not the rear, that is the critical one from a weight/tire standpoint. (If I recall correctly, you were only replacing the rear 6, so it didn't matter in your case?) In fact, the list GAWR for my front axle is 14,320 lbs., exactly the theoretical capacity with load range H tires (and a perfect left-right balance). That tells me that with load range G, I'd be overweight in the front at GAWR, thus would actually have to reduce to 12,350 (and my actual weight is more than that).

I think the problem with the rears is largely for those without tags. With a tag, my recommended pressures per the Michelin tables are 105 front, 75 rear, 75 tag. (I add 5-10 on general principle.) Those rear and tag pressures are the minimum, because my weights on those axles are so low. Even if I went to max GAWRs, I'd only need to bump the rears to 85, and the tags not at all.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:31 PM   #25
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Mike,

My front axle GAWR is almost identical to yours. That's why it was not a concern or part of this discussion. However, my rear tandem axle has a GAWR of 20,000 and the tag axle is 10,000, totaling 30,000. So, as Ecker pointed out "Federal regulations at present do require that maximum tire rating match maximum axle rating. the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall be not less than the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567".

All that being said, 6 G rated tires would give an owner much more than the GAWR in this particular instance. Does that mean the MH mfg & tire dealers are just trying to sell more than required? I don't know enough about tires to answer that question. Hopefully, someone else does.

One thing for sure, with H rated tires I can run less air pressure to get a better ride.

Dave
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:07 PM   #26
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I got 4 corner weights on a Cat scale. First weight front and back axels. second weight with right wheels off scale.Do the math and figure what four corners are.
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Old 09-06-2010, 05:02 AM   #27
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I went to a ground level, grain loading operation, and got each corner, each axle and total weight done for $5- . Positioning the rig was the hard part (by myself). The corners had to be exactly on the corner of the scale and when it was positioned properly I "tooted" the horn and the lady jotted down the reading. No computer printout was involved.

Using truck stop scales is not user friendly for this purpose because many are elevated, plus, they want a fee for each weight. I suggest you call a grain weighing operation, with ground level scales near you, and find out what time of day is a fairly quite time- do it then-.
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Old 09-06-2010, 07:29 AM   #28
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I paid $5 for the first weight and $1 for the second weight.
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