Don't understand dealers

[LeeSusan]

I don't try to understand "dealers," but I do try to understand people. NADA is not actual sales prices, but it still is useful information. I don't consider any adjustments for options. I do know that certain choices are valuable (to me personally), like hp/torque, tag axle, Newmar comfort steering. I also know that I can go to some sources and get actual sales data.

For example, a 2011 Tiffin Breeze 32 sold for $6,000 under low book a couple of months ago on craigslist. I also know that in 2014 they upgraded to an IFS which means something to me. Obviously, the buyer for the 2011 either didn't value IFS like I do, didn't know about it, or the cost was low enough to not ignore, or the wife like the coach...who knows. There could be any number of reasons why the seller sold at that price...maybe it was reasonable based on the condition of the rig.

In fact, some options/choices may reduce the value.

Otherwise, the options are pretty much of zero value to me, but if somebody else values other options then a particular coach may be worth more or less to them than to me.

The funny thing about a "value" is that it actually means nothing until you can buy or sell at that value because someone wants to sell and someone wants to buy and often that is why these values are so murky. Also, dealers may adjust their prices with regards to their desire to keep or move an rv off the lot for their business reasons.

One person laughed because a dealer turned down his offer one month and then several months later sold the rv to him below his offer. Actually, the dealer probably wins most of the time, otherwise he might not be in business.
I like to think of it akin to gambling: the casino wins most of the time which is why they can afford to own the casino and others can't.
One reason the dealer may have lowered the price is because he had better fish to fry and wanted to get rid of the flooring costs/interest that were mounting up as the next year was looming. Who knows?

Value is a range because of the murkiness and the value range is not absolute either.

Some say it is a seller's market and some say a buyer's market.

Note: the wording "new to me" is strange to me as I never have heard someone say "old to me." I prefer "old to me."

[Gordon Dewald]

Marketing is king. If they can make you want it and think you got a good price you will be happy. MSRP is one of the things that makes you think you got a good deal. If they routinely give you 30% then what is the real value of the unit? Not MSRP!

Regional pricing is applied to soft markets. The internet has given us the ability to comparison shop and if we are willing to do a bit of travel we might be able to realize some savings. Maybe.

Because each used unit is very individual it would be tough to compare apples to apples. Mileage, use, age of tires, etc are all different. There is no rational way to compare the value of each piece of the puzzle.

Buy something you are happy with. Ignore the fellow who claims to have recieved a 35% discount. It has been my casual observation that some must always have the best, fastest, heaviest, lightest, best deal, fill in the blanks. Numbers are easy to manipulate.

My question is: Are you happy with your unit? Are you out there enjoying it?

[Hikerdogs]

I find this discussion rather interesting. There seems to be a vast difference as to the value of the NADA Guide depending on whether you're buying or selling.

Over the years there have been dozens of sellers posting rants about how low the NADA prices were, and how much more valuable their coach was compared the prices in the book. Some sellers were so incensed at the low prices in the book they chased off potential buyers when they offered something near what the book listed as the value.

Now we're starting to see buyers on the other side of the coin. They seem to feel the price guide is what the dealers should be using to determine a listing price.

This is one arena where the selling price has been subject to negotiation since the sales of motor vehicles started. As mentioned earlier the seller can always come down on price, and the buyer can always come up.

The buyers always offer a price on what they see as a value for their money. Sellers always set a price as to what they think the perceived value is to a potential buyer.

As with anything the sale price is determined by what the seller is willing to take and what the buyer is willing to spend. When those two numbers reach a happy medium the sale is made.

[Tom N]

Originally Posted by Mich F

I wouldn't count on the NADA value that the average consumer can access, as being particularly accurate.
I just looked up my 2014 Itasca Spirit 31K, which I've had for 2 years, and found the average retail value, before adding any options is $62,050. Adding options naturally makes it higher than that. This is a MH that I paid $60,000 for. I didn't realize I was buying an appreciating asset.

Used motorhome prices have recently risen because of the huge drop in oil prices.

$4+ gas and fuel discourages shoppers. (prices drop)

$2 gas fuels fills the sales lots with lookers. (prices rise)

[StevieG]

Originally Posted by LeeSusan

For example, a 2011 Tiffin Breeze 32 sold for $6,000 under low book a couple of months ago on craigslist.

As far as I know, the only way you would know what an item sold for on Craigslist is to call the seller and ask. I'm not sure I would believe or take what a stranger on Craiglist told me as gospel. They might just want to make you feel like you missed the "deal of the century"...

As for NADA and KBB, use them as a starting point. In most cases, they are so far apart that people will generally use whichever gets them to the number they want to negotiate by... In the end, it's what somebody is willing to pay and what somebody is willing to accept.

[Gordon Dewald]

My theory is there are three prices for anything you are going to sell.

1) Set the price high and you may be fortunate that the person who comes by wants it so badly they will pay whatever price is being asked for.

2) The price is so low the first person who comes by will buy it because it is a total bargain.

3) Somewhere in between 1 and 2. This is probably the norm.

Many people will sell but price with their own sentimental value included in the price. Others just want to get out it of their inventory and don't care to haggle or negotiate.

Dealers on the other hand need to make money at the end of the month. They have families and employees they have to take care of. There are not many who buy high and sell low that are still in business, nor are there many who buy high and sell higher going to be around long.

[srh]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

My theory is there are three prices for anything you are going to sell.

1) Set the price high and you may be fortunate that the person who comes by wants it so badly they will pay whatever price is being asked for.


Many people will sell but price with their own sentimental value included in the price. Others just want to get out it of their inventory and don't care to haggle or negotiate.

Some private sellers have theirs so out priced that they keep it advertising for months and months. For example, look at this seemingly very desirable CC Magna Donatello:
2009 Country Coach Magna 630, Class A - Diesel RV For Sale By Owner in Las Vegas, Nevada | RVT.com - 49247

Originally advertised for $430K, then $389K, now for $229K and still no taker. When they had it for 389K, I asked them once and was told they turned down 339K.

On a coach of around 200K value, the depreciation alone is approximately $1000 a month not counting the insurance, storage, and maintenance.

Sentimental value- Not worth anything for everyone else!

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by Mich F

I wouldn't count on the NADA value that the average consumer can access, as being particularly accurate.
I just looked up my 2014 Itasca Spirit 31K, which I've had for 2 years, and found the average retail value, before adding any options is $62,050. Adding options naturally makes it higher than that. This is a MH that I paid $60,000 for. I didn't realize I was buying an appreciating asset.

The one thing with NADA that most people overlook is that they list as options equipment that's standard and you don't add that. On our 2002 DSDP NADA shows both a 6 and 10 gallon in the options, our model came with a 10 gallon as standard so you didn't add either one. Slides were the same way, they showed them as options but their base price already included them. You have to know what was standard and what options are on the one you're trying to price to even get close.

[MT4Runner]

Originally Posted by bulldog2

looking on line for the same makes of MHs across the country ,all my local guys are over priced ,and yes its a good thing to go find one in another state but iam raising two grandkids by myself and god knows I don't trust them ( 15-16) for more then a day by them selfs I guess there is always DUCT TAPE ,if I had to really go cross country to get one just kidding

You do need to know your local market.

RV's are overpriced in Montana. It's usually less expensive to buy in Washington or Arizona including travel and fuel costs.

Search Craigslist in other areas of the country to get an idea for pricing on the same units elsewhere.

Spring Break or summer road trip with the grandkids!!

[Mich F]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

The one thing with NADA that most people overlook is that they list as options equipment that's standard and you don't add that. On our 2002 DSDP NADA shows both a 6 and 10 gallon in the options, our model came with a 10 gallon as standard so you didn't add either one. Slides were the same way, they showed them as options but their base price already included them. You have to know what was standard and what options are on the one you're trying to price to even get close.

I didn't overlook anything. The NADA price I referenced was the value of the base vehicle, which was more than I paid for the vehicle, which did have all the options offered at the time, included in what I paid. I never added anything to the NADA value for options.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by Mich F

I didn't overlook anything. The NADA price I referenced was the value of the base vehicle, which was more than I paid for the vehicle, which did have all the options offered at the time, included in what I paid. I never added anything to the NADA value for options.

I have to agree. NADA has the has the average retail listing for our 2013 Adventurer higher than what we paid for it new. When looking at the options I didn't select any. However we did add several thousand dollars worth. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that the list prices have increased considerably. The list price for a 2015 Adventurer is over $20,000.00 higher than the same model in 2013.

[Mike and Cha]

Same here, Nada without me adding anything on the list of options shows my MH as being worth about $22,000 more than we paid for it, and mine is in better condition than their way of rating them. Although I don't think that is a correct figure, I still don't think that we will experience that huge depreciation all the used buyers speak of. Like I have said before I actually bought mine for $3000 less than a couple used ones we looked at that were a year older, less equipment, and did not have the new body style.

[LeeSusan]

Generically, depreciation has been historically higher for gas than diesel rvs. The bottom line will not be depreciation, but the number of buyers looking for what is being sold that keeps the value up or down, and the willingness of the sellers to cut lose of what was part of their dream or horror.

I think most people like the term depreciation because it is easy to understand and compute, and they like NADA because it is easy to get. Placing a reasonable value is much harder and argumentative, because it ends up being two personal judgments and a meeting of two personal minds regarding a complex vehicle. Options and emotions help to muddy the water.

The price is what you pay, the value is the benefit you personally get out of it.

[lowpasslew]

We have the same problems raising grand kids. No relief until Heaven.