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Old 11-02-2013, 01:42 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by D M View Post
How do they deal with a open bottle of whiskey in the motor home when traveling and you get pulled over?
good question I have a few of those in a cabinet also in Maryland the law doesn't include a key any where. My LEO friends told me last night just don't have the key in the ignition and don't be in the drivers seat.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:48 PM   #30
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So based on Fla. drunk driving while sleeping with keys law, everyone who owns a gun and a bullet would be guilty of murder. Even if you did not shoot anyone.
I am all about getting every drunk off the road but when someone is doing the correct thing and sleeping it off to arrest them? I thought the D in DUI was driving. How could any judge allow something like that to happen?
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:05 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az99 View Post
So based on Fla. drunk driving while sleeping with keys law, everyone who owns a gun and a bullet would be guilty of murder. Even if you did not shoot anyone.
I am all about getting every drunk off the road but when someone is doing the correct thing and sleeping it off to arrest them? I thought the D in DUI was driving. How could any judge allow something like that to happen?

Your comparison is so off base "it does not compute".

The legislators make the laws.
There is often a difference between the "Letter of the Law"
(the very words in the law) and the "Intent of the Law".
The "Intent of the Law" is where many Judges get to use
their judgement (Judicial Interpretation).

There would be NO conviction without the Judge agreeing.
My past experience says there would be NO arrest if it were
not already known how the Judge views such arrests.
An Officer is NOT going into a Judge's court knowing hjs
case will automatically be dismissed. He would hear about
it for both the Judge and his superiors.

The "doing the right thing" defense could only work if you
can prove that person's intent. Did he really rationally
think the should sleep if off, when he could not stop
himself from excessive drinking? Did he just curl-up and
pass out?

Like I said, what many here need to know in the USA is
their 4th Amendment Rights to be secure against unreasonable
Search and Seizure when it applies to your Motor Home.
Which was really the OP's question in reference to application
of DUI laws.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:09 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by RVRon View Post
I guess one way to look at this would be that if you were drunk and you were sleeping in the car with the keys in easy reach, you might, in your drunken state, still decide to fire it up and drive. As far as police entering your MH or RV to see if your drunk while.parked in a lot somewhere, that's a different issue involving definitions of home vs motor vehicle. Probably not a problem unless you are stopped driving the unit under the influence.
Only if the MH is in an RV park and hooked up to utilities is it considered a "home", otherwise it's a motor vehicle and subject to all those laws. It's easy to just jump into the drivers seat and drive off when not connected to utilities.
But, it's up to the interpretation of the officer at the time and later, the courts.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:17 PM   #33
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This is what a California attorney has to say about MH's and the law. It is related to a different subject but it also applies (I believe) to this subject.

" When driving a motor home, it is treated as a motor vehicle.

However, when you are camping in your motor home it may be treated as a residence. The terms “temporary residence” or “campsite”, are not defined, so this is another "gray" area. If you have entered an established campground and hooked up, this should qualify as a temporary residence or campsite, however, if you have merely pulled into a highway rest stop to sleep for a few hours, this is not likely to qualify. If you are prosecuted, the issue of whether you were at a temporary residence or campsite would be a "question of fact" to be decided by a jury."
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by middleman210 View Post
To all my law enforcement friends (Or those in the know) I had an interesting conversation with some on the other day. It seems that he was arrested for Dui while sleeping it off in the parking lot of the bar he had been drinking. The gentleman in question says (his side of the story) that after a night of parting he knew he should not drive so instead he decided to climb into the back seat and sleep. His keys were on the seat in front of him. First off can this happen (I don’t know the guy all that well) I mean sleeping in the back seat and still get arrested for Dui? And how would this affect those of us in a RV. I mean I love to have a couple (6 packs) beers after a long day driving and sometimes that takes place in a Wally world parking lot. So if I do indulge do I have to worry about getting arrested while in my RV which I consider my home away from Home? Any input would be great
It's simple. Pull the keys. Put them in a safe place. Do not forget where you put them. Cops come you have no keys. Therefore you are not in control of the vehicle. A couple of people I know got busted because the officer came over and asked them to move the vehicle. They were busted after they started the car.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
Only if the MH is in an RV park and hooked up to utilities is it considered a "home", otherwise it's a motor vehicle and subject to all those laws. It's easy to just jump into the drivers seat and drive off when not connected to utilities.
But, it's up to the interpretation of the officer at the time and later, the courts.
There are Federal Court decisions protecting the
occupants in a Motor Home from being searched.
It is viewed as an extension of your home and therefore
protected from Unreasonable Searches and Seizures
in the 4th Amendment.

This is important because a warrant is need to search your
Motor Home,even on a highway, where with a car it is NOT
needed. This applies rather it is on a road, parking lot, or
elsewhere.

There is no stipulation to being hooked-up to anything.

Now if the driver is observed operating the Motor Home in
an erratic or unsafe way, he is subject to motor vehicle laws.
That is an entirely different situation.

The Federal Courts have viewed the Motor Home as special
because it is both a Home and a vehicle. They have ruled that
the more stringent standards of Search and Seizure must apply,
because of it being a Home. Even if it is temporary.

Basically if you are sleeping it off in a Motor Home, the Officer
has no right to search you Motor Home, look for keys, or
any-other thing else without a warrant; as I posted before.
I makes no difference if you are hooked-up or not.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:18 PM   #36
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As completely crazy as it sounds.... I can attest that it happened to two people I know in California. One of them was simply sitting on the fender of his car!

The part about this story which makes me cringe is the private property aspect of it. I just don't understand where the jurisdiction come from. What it implies is that one could build their own roads on their own private property and still get busted for driving there after a couple of beers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldme View Post
The "doing the right thing" defense could only work if you
can prove that person's intent. Did he really rationally
think the should sleep if off, when he could not stop
himself from excessive drinking? Did he just curl-up and
pass out?

.
I also don't see why someone would have to prove that they had no intent to break the law. An analogy would be to cite everyone owning a high performance car for speeding... unless they could prove that, even though they bought a hot car, they had no intention of speeding.

Some really dumb stuff out there.

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Old 11-02-2013, 03:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldme View Post
There are Federal Court decisions protecting the
occupants in a Motor Home from being searched.
It is viewed as an extension of your home and therefore
protected from Unreasonable Searches and Seizures
in the 4th Amendment.

This is important because a warrant is need to search your
Motor Home,even on a highway, where with a car it is NOT
needed. This applies rather it is on a road, parking lot, or
elsewhere.

There is no stipulation to being hooked-up to anything.

Now if the driver is observed operating the Motor Home in
an erratic or unsafe way, he is subject to motor vehicle laws.
That is an entirely different situation.

The Federal Courts have viewed the Motor Home as special
because it is both a Home and a vehicle. They have ruled that
the more stringent standards of Search and Seizure must apply,
because of it being a Home. Even if it is temporary.

Basically if you are sleeping it off in a Motor Home, the Officer
has no right to search you Motor Home, look for keys, or
any-other thing else without a warrant; as I posted before.
I makes no difference if you are hooked-up or not.
This has been hashed over numerous times on other forums. If you're stopped and not hooked up to utilities you're considered a motor vehicle. Even the RV magazines have stated that fact.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO Pilot View Post
This is what a California attorney has to say about MH's and the law. It is related to a different subject but it also applies (I believe) to this subject.

" When driving a motor home, it is treated as a motor vehicle.

However, when you are camping in your motor home it may be treated as a residence. The terms “temporary residence” or “campsite”, are not defined, so this is another "gray" area. If you have entered an established campground and hooked up, this should qualify as a temporary residence or campsite, however, if you have merely pulled into a highway rest stop to sleep for a few hours, this is not likely to qualify. If you are prosecuted, the issue of whether you were at a temporary residence or campsite would be a "question of fact" to be decided by a jury."
That's what has been published in RV magazines too.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
This has been hashed over numerous times on other forums. If you're stopped and not hooked up to utilities you're considered a motor vehicle. Even the RV magazines have stated that fact.

"Even the RV magazines have stated that fact."
That means nothing. Lots of misinformation out there.

You are understanding half of the equation.
The Motor Home being driven is subject to vehicle laws.
Federal Courts have made the rulings that I have stated.
There is NO stipulation in any Federal Ruling that the
vehicle has to be either stationary or hooked up to anything.

As stated before there are exceptions in extenuating circumstances.

Federal rulings have identified the uniqueness of a Motor Home,
just as I previously stated and how it applies.

Take what advice you want.
Call a Criminal Lawyer and ask about reasonable Searches
of Motor Homes. That is what this comes down to.

The statement that I made have come from my personal
experience of 26 years as a LEO and 7 years as a
State Certified LEO Instructor.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #40
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From an Escapee article

"

In a landmark case that went all the way to the US Supreme Court, a number of precedents were set regarding this grey area in the law. It seems that a man was conducting illegal activities inside a motorhome parked in public parking lot. The police entered and searched his motorhome without warrant or consent and discovered illegal drugs inside. The man was arrested, and at his subsequent trial, his attorney attempted to get the case thrown out by claiming that the search was illegal. Since the man was living in the motorhome, it was a home, and could not legally be entered and searched without a warrant. The prosecution claimed that it was a vehicle and as such, could be searched without a warrant, on the basis of probable cause alone. The Supreme Court's ruling, in part stated: Due to the manner in which the motorhome was being used, it was more a vehicle than a residence. Since it was readily mobile with only a turn of the ignition key and was “stationary in a place not regularly used for residential purposes, temporary or otherwise,” it was a “licensed motor vehicle subject to a range of police regulations inapplicable to a fixed dwelling.” The motorhome, in this case, was considered a vehicle and the legality of the original search was upheld. "


The full article is here

RVers and the 4th Amendment
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #41
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In Alberta Canada,at one time if you were in possession of the keys to a motor vehicle you could be charged. This may have changed as the years go by.
There are a lot of good cops out there,most of the time when you hear of something like this there is more to the story.

What about this scenario. You pull into Wally World for the night there is a coach next door with the party in full swing. No curtains drawn and the bottle being past around and a good time being had by all.
Or you pull into Wally world and there is a coach beside you with the curtains drawn and the same thing going on. But the occupants being discreet about their activity's.
I think one scenario would be visited by law enforcement and the other would not.
If I remember correctly in a public place Alcohol must be out of site.
Both scenarios are the same but the message sent is a lot different.
What would you do if you were a cop??
I believe law enforcement officers have to exercise good judgment.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:49 PM   #42
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With Searches and Seizures there is also
the need for probable cause.

Key words are:
"It seems that a man was conducting illegal activities inside a motorhome parked in public parking lot".

Their observation are probable cause and the ability to leave gave them
extenuating circumstances.

A good indication as to how things have been viewed and about the complexity of Search and Seizure can be found here:

http://or.fd.org/Search%20and%20Seizure.pdf
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