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Old 12-17-2017, 07:21 AM   #1
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Electrical ??? / Building New RV Metal Storage Building

Good Morning - I am currently in the framing stage of building a new home and soon to start construction of an rv metal storage building and I would like to know if anyone has successfully modified their motorhome generator to be able to back-feed selected in-home circuits. This of course would be after turning off the main incoming circuit breaker from source to protect linemen working on whatever caused the power outage.

And, if someone can recommend how to utilize a manual power transfer switch, I will do that.

The reason I ask here, is that I would like to know from actual IRV2 experience, and also know "the answer" prior to discussing with my electrician.

OK - here is my situation. My home will be all electric and my electrician is planning to install two (2) 200 amp panels - one for the house and one for the "bus barn". (I believe 200 amps for the barn is too much)

I am thinking I would like both panels to be installed in my home, then send 125 or 150 amps to the bus barn YET STILL be able to back feed or otherwise provide up to 50 amps of power back to the house from my coach 12.5Kw Onan generator to select in-home circuits? (I would first switch off ALL in-home circuits and energize only those circuits needed)

Any suggestions? Especially how to link / jumper two separate 200 amp boxes during a power loss? THANK YOU in advance, and again, I am more than willing (for safety's sake) to do it "right" yet I don't know exactly what hardware is needed.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:54 AM   #2
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What is the distance from the house to the RV Barn??

I believe you are right in that two 200 amp circuits is not balanced in that your RV generator is probably 12500 watt (???), which is only capable of producing 105 amp combined in L1 & L2 or a 50-60 amp panel. It is overkill to put in a 200 amp circuit.

As to the required disconnects, you will only need one capable of switching the ~60 amps and because of this the circuits you wish to power in the house 200 amp panel need to planned as the RV generator will not power everything and probably couldn't power a HVAC system but instead power lighting, water heater (? depending on size), refrigerators/freezers, cooking.

I am currently building a new house and have done all the electrical myself (in Tenn it is legal for a home owner to do this even if they are not a certified electrician). I am an engineer and have dealt with power distribution systems so I felt I could wire the house. I passed my final inspection last month.

I installed a 400 amp service panel and then split off into two circuits with a safety disconnect in front of each 200 amp panels. One panel controls the main and stairs levels and the other for the basement.

I did this to provide safety while working on either circuit and to potentially install a generator backup for the basement circuit where the well pump and water heater are located. I will also install circuits to keep refrigerator working and lighting. I also thought it wish not to put all my eggs in one basket and decided to use propane for water heater, cooking, and dryer. The only thing we will be lacking in a generator backup scenario is HVAC but I also installed a wood burning fireplace on the first floor and wood stove in the basement. I also installed a whole house fan in the attic that will provide some relief in the summer.

As to a disconnect, you usually have to determine which circuits you want to run and install a separate panel for those and use a generator switching device that powers those circuit.

From your description it sounds like your electrician is unfamiliar with installing a backup generator system using your RV, I'd suggest another opinion.
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:14 AM   #3
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I've always been intrigued with the idea of using the Onan if we ever had a grid failure. I build facilities with standby generators, but they always have automatic transfer switches that come as a package from the genset manufacturer. I have two of them under construction right now. My electrical sub contractor could probably answer this question. I may ask him how best to tap in to the RV.
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:26 AM   #4
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think twice about running your motorhome generator while the MH is parked inside any building.......That's a play that only has one act.....

Pad mount, packaged home standby generators are readily available at HD, you'll spend more money 'cobbling up' something than it will cost to buy one of these units. As for the wiring, a manual TX sw keeps things simple, no need for a separate panel for emergency circuits. The switch simply selects which source (utility or gen) is applied to the circuits. This panel goes 'ahead' of your main breaker panel. Don't re-invent the wheel here.

You are building your dream home along with room for your baby, don't cut corners now, it'l cost you more in the end.
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:43 AM   #5
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Thank you for your replies... the distance will be approximately 100 feet.

I definitely want to "do it right", yet simply don't know what hardware would be required. And, would never run the genset in an enclosed area.

Perhaps I need just one 400 amp breaker box instead of two 200 amp boxes...

I just do not want to invest in a separate whole-home genset unit as only used a genset back-fed into my current residence once in the 9+ years have lived here, and natural gas is not available where we are building - and, we do not want to use propane inside our home....
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:50 AM   #6
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You would need a sub-panel in the barn anyway, so why put the second one in the house? If you feel you must be able to control barn power from the house,, just put a big disconnect breaker in the house and feed power to the barn panel via that.

Personally I much prefer oversized load centers to undersized ones. They cost very little more and have plenty of room for future needs. If you only populate a 200A panel with 100A worth of breakers, you haven't wasted much at all.

Connecting the RV genset to a panel requires a transfer switch to completely disconnect the panel from the utility company power lines. Most any electrical supply dept or store will have them on hand. Or order from Amazon.

Running the genset inside the barn if not safe. You would at least need to leave the doors open, but people tend to forget...
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:58 AM   #7
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I never said you need a whole-house generator, you just wire in the circuits you want to be fed by both the utility and gen. Have a cup of coffee with your electrician, you are making this much harder than it really is. As for gen fuel, what's wrong with diesel? Talk to sparky, its simpler than you think. And enjoy your dream home.
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jd956jd956 View Post
Thank you for your replies... the distance will be approximately 100 feet.

I definitely want to "do it right", yet simply don't know what hardware would be required. And, would never run the genset in an enclosed area.

Perhaps I need just one 400 amp breaker box instead of two 200 amp boxes...

I just do not want to invest in a separate whole-home genset unit as only used a genset back-fed into my current residence once in the 9+ years have lived here, and natural gas is not available where we are building - and, we do not want to use propane inside our home....
Quick simple answer to your Question -

Manual Disconnect

Subpanel with the necessary electrical runs necessary - Heat - Well - Refrigerators - Couple outlets for lights........................

Proper sized electrical wire for the 100' run

Feed from your Coach - Hardwired to connect to run with another disconnect.

Simply put - a real PITA - that will likely cost a lot more than a Propane Backup Generator from Amazon - which if bought and installed with the new house could be Automatic - Simple - Effective - Safe and Add Value to the House.

JMHO,

I build houses in my spare time and I speak from experience.


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Old 12-17-2017, 09:57 AM   #9
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Several others have pointed out the risks of running the RV generator inside a building, and I agree - bad idea.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that if the plan is to try to use the RV generator to back up the house in an outage, what happens when the RV isn't home during the outage? You'd have no protection against food spoilage in your refrigerator and freezer, which a stand-alone backup generator with automatic transfer switch WOULD offer.

I keep my coach inside a metal building on our property, and I've wired 50A there for the RV. But I also have a 35KW Generac backup generator for the house, and if there's an outage while we're gone, it keeps everything going till utility power is restored - no manual switching, it just takes over. Does it get much use - no. But it's reassuring to know it's there if it's needed, and IMO, it's a lot better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Just sayin'
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:47 AM   #10
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For the odd occasion when we've needed auxiliary power at our stick house (Florida in hurricane season!), we just run an extension cord inside and plug in the fridge and a couple lights. Our coach is at the side of the house, so 50 ft of 12 gauge cord is plenty for our needs.
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Old 12-18-2017, 03:45 PM   #11
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For the odd occasion when we've needed auxiliary power at our stick house (Florida in hurricane season!), we just run an extension cord inside and plug in the fridge and a couple lights. Our coach is at the side of the house, so 50 ft of 12 gauge cord is plenty for our needs.
We did that once too - local utility left us powerless for 3 days. We were home, so we could run an extension cord up from the coach to keep food in the freezer/frig from rotting. Worked fine - but we were home.

My point earlier, was, what happens when you're not? That's why I decided to invest in the Generac. That, plus the obvious fact that the extension cord only powers the few things you can use it for. Can't run the HVAC, stove, and the other essentials to keep on living a normal life in the house with only an extension cord.
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Old 12-18-2017, 07:52 PM   #12
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GenTran

I thought the same way... just wanted to run some select circuits in the house from my RV generator in the event of a power failure. I had a GenTransfer panel installed next to my electrical panel with a 50amp receptacle on the outside wall as a source from the generator. When the power fails, i turn off all house circuits via the gentran panel, plug a cord into my generator ( 2003 Itasca generator had a manual recepticle to use when running power from the generator). I plug the other end into the house outside receptacle and pick which house circuits to turn on at the gentran panel. It worked fine but I have never experienced a power failure since installing it.
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:23 PM   #13
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The one thing you'll need to think about, is that the Onan puts out only a single phase. So you can tie that feed to your L1 and L2 in the subpanel and backfeed.....HOWEVER....nothing in your house that is 240v will work.

You will need to have those circuit breakers turned off.

I have a list that I go thru before starting the generator, which I keep at the breaker box. Don't have it here, but will go from memory.

- Turn off unneeded breakers in the garage subpanel (don't need air compressor or heater turning on)
- Turn off the house main breakers from the street, as you mentioned.
- Turn off all individual circuit breakers
- Start the generator, and turn on the breaker feeding the subpanel, your house panel is now energized
- Using the list of essential circuits (for instance refrig), turn on one at a time. Go into the house and turn off unnecessary lights that may have been in the on position when the power went off. Turn the next essential switch on, and verify in house.
- Leave off all 240 breakers (like the outside air units, oven, dryer, etc)
- Leave off the list of circuits which are non-essentials
- I have a list of some circuits which 'may' be turned on, care with total amperage. For instance, my furnaces are gas and 120, so I can use one in addition to my gas fireplace (main source of heat w/outage), but I don't want to have multiple furnaces turned on. Could use washing machine, or dishwasher, but want to plan their use.

My detached garage is about 70 feet away, and I put in 100amp @ 240 v service. More than the garage would ever need, but I only planned to trench to the garage once. Put in a spare 1-2" plastic pipe in the trench (or larger if you want), and run a heavy rope thru the pipe, tieing it off on both ends. That way in the future you can always pull another wire for whatever reason (cable, lan, security, power). I built all of this years ago pre RV, when I had a standalone generator. We normally have at least one multi-day outage a year due to ice storms, and heavily laden pine trees snapping taking out distribution lines. I have two 200 amp boxes for the house. One of them has a 100 amp breaker, which is the feed to the detached garage.

A trap I always fall into, is that I'm running fat dump and happy, then realize that all of my neighbors have power.....and find out power came back on many hours ago. When the power in the neighborhood comes back on, you have no way of knowing it. You have to periodically check.
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Old 12-19-2017, 05:15 AM   #14
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The one thing you'll need to think about, is that the Onan puts out only a single phase. So you can tie that feed to your L1 and L2 in the subpanel and backfeed.....HOWEVER....nothing in your house that is 240v will work.

You will need to have those circuit breakers turned off.
.
The specs say that the 12.5 Onan is 240 volts.
240 volts is single " split " phase power.

Normal 240 volt appliances will run on it.
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