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Old 07-16-2010, 08:32 AM   #1
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Electrical issue

Need a little help from my friends! 2005 Beaver Monterey 40' Xantrex RS2000 inverter, Onan generator, 50 amp. Drove for 13 hours, 2 hour traffic jam, and it was hot so ran generator and both roof airs. Arrived at destination, shut everything off, and plugged into 30 amp service with my 50/30 adapter but had no power to coach. Double checked the breaker at the post and verified the ATS had switched (clunk). On the inverter system panel there was a warning saying the house batteries were overheated. Had the inverter serviced recently by factory after some issues and wondering if the wrong battery size was chosen if that would be the cause of the overheating, or if it was just the long drive and ambient temp. Restarted generator and had power but not real happy neighbors. Whew!

Now for the question . . . I know the inverter will stop charging the batteries when the temperature reaches a certain level but would it also block incoming shore power to everything else? Any other ideas about what's going on?
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:06 AM   #2
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The inverter will not "block" all power but there are circuit breakers that could trip to microwave and other general purpose outlets. Did you check the main breaker(s) in the distribution panel(s)? Even though you may hear a clunk of the transfer switch, you may still have an issue with it or the conductors to and from it. You should inspect, clean and or repair any bad wiring and tighten all connections. Also check for voltage (under load) on the load side of transfer switch. Let us know what you find.
What size battery bank do you have for the house? Are all cable connections clean and tight? Are the batteries new? Have you tested each cell for specific gravity or had them load tested? Is the compartment the inverter in vented? Let us know and we will try to help.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:05 AM   #3
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I don't think the inverter has anything to do with the power to the coach problem, since all appears to work ok when using the generator. The inverter doesn't know or care if external power comes from the genset or shore cord. My guess is that there is a problem with the 50/30 adapter or perhaps a problem with the shore power itself (low voltage, etc).

As for the battery temperature warning, were the batteries actually hot to the touch? There is usually a sensor wire running to the batteries to sense temperature - was that sensor in place ok? Try turning the 30A breaker that feeds the inverter/charger off for awhile and see if they cool down.
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Old 07-17-2010, 01:45 PM   #4
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My Heart (now Xantrex) Freedom 25 has three breakers on the inverter box. One is for an internal Transfer Switch (not the separate ATS) that has popped when the current draw is too big on a circuit when using 50A or 30A shore power.

It will prevent shore power from reaching the coach.

I do not know if it will prevent the genset from delivering power to the coach since I just power down, crawl into the compartment, and reset the breaker button.
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:01 PM   #5
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The breaker on the inverter will only prevent power from reaching the inverter-supplied circuits, though that is probably most of the 120v outlets in the coach. They get their power exclusively through the inverter, whether on shore power or not. Other shore power circuits, e.g. the air conditioners, should have 120vac power independent of the inverter status.
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Roamer [Gary] View Post
The breaker on the inverter will only prevent power from reaching the inverter-supplied circuits, though that is probably most of the 120v outlets in the coach. They get their power exclusively through the inverter, whether on shore power or not. Other shore power circuits, e.g. the air conditioners, should have 120vac power independent of the inverter status.
Radams, you said "no power to the coach." With most coaches, the air conditioners' power is separate from the inverter. Do your AC's (either one) work?

Also, it would be helpful if you posted some information about your coach - at least year, make, and model - on your signature block.
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:32 PM   #7
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Did you shut down the AC's before killing the generator?

Some times you will blow the AC starter cicuits or trip your mains if you kill the generator while they AC is still running.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:37 PM   #8
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Wow! This is great!

Let's see, where to begin. I did check all breakers including the mains and none were thrown. I cycled them off and back on again just to be sure.

My thinking on the ATS was that if it worked with 50 amp service then it should be okay for 30 amp. Assumed the 50/30 adapter was okay since when I turned the breaker on at the pedestal I could hear the ATS clunk.

Four 210AH battery's one year old. All cables tested at that time, some ends replaced, and some sort of sealant sprayed on all connections to prevent corrosion. All are tight and appearance wise are okay. Compartment near engine exhaust but had long trips before without overheating issue. This might be first time with generator running extensively though. Have not tested cells or battery's. Did top them off with distilled water before leaving.

Inverter in basement upside down. Did not check lights on unit, but again, 50 amp service works okay. Inverter charger set for 230AH flooded battery's (closest to what I have). Seems like small difference and that's the same setting it's been on before issue.

Did not check voltage at pedestal but was told by manager that he knew it was good because previous occupant had just left and it worked fine for them. Did not touch battery's to see if hot. Cleared warning from inverter after thing had chance to cool down and it didn't come back on. Used 50 amp rest of way.

Couldn't get either AC lit but that could have been that I didn't wait long before I fired the Ginny back up and maybe the high head pressures were leading to a delay and I wasn't waiting around. They fired up on 50 amp service.

Yes, I did shut off AC before shutting off Ginny.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:10 PM   #9
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I didn't want scare you guys away so didn't tell you the rest of the story but I feel we're all buddies now. Right? Right??

Here goes. On way back home after about eight hour drive with generator and AC's running needed to refuel. Shut off AC's a couple miles before exit, and Ginny on exit. Refueled and tried restarting Ginny. No luck and got a code 27 error. It would start but shutoff after 45 seconds or so. Tried multiple times but no luck. Wife stopped talking, and that's never a good sign. Left it off for about an hour and then was able to get started and keep running. Guess what? No power! Now the dogs even look disgusted. All three of them, wife and dogs, went to the back of coach. Oh, and when I refueled, the inverter control panel said the batteries were overheated again and gave me a F4 fault which means it disabled the charger.

So, now I'm wondering if these are all the same problem or if I hit the perfect storm.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:17 AM   #10
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What about this?

Okay, so when the inverter was serviced it was removed from the coach. Is it possible that when it was reinstalled the connections could have been crossed so that the 30 amps was connected to the leg that only has the rear AC on it rather than the one that everything else works off of? I bought a new adapter today too so I'll try that in place of the other.

I could test the battery overheating problem by disabling the charger on the next trip and running the Ginny and AC's like I did this time and see if the problem reoccurs. If so I guess I need ventilation. If not, then I need to change battery size settings on the inverter, and if that doesn't work then I've got an inverter problem. Right?

Lastly, I'm having the generator looked at by the local Cummins (Onan) people so we'll see what they've got to say. That code 27 covers a wide bunch of sins and I've got an extended warranty that will cover that.

Whaddaya think guys?
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Old 07-18-2010, 10:00 AM   #11
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The inverter has nothing to do with the rear a/c, but it is possible that something got screwed up when it was removed and reinstalled. That might explain the battery overtemp code.

The inverter gets its 120v power form the main circuit breaker panel, so it doesn't know if you have 30A, 50A or whatever. Doesn't know genset from shore power either.

Hopefully Onan can diagnose your genset error.

I think you have a dark cloud following you...
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:25 PM   #12
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Unbelievable!

You guys aren't going to believe this. So I take the Beav in to the shop to have the issues looked into and the first thing they do is check the house batteries which show 11.5 volts and a little low on fluid so he tops them off and plugs the coach in to a 110V outlet and the inverter starts charging the batteries. They checked all the connections and they're tight and not corroded. So far so good. He checks the voltage later and they're at 13.1 volts. He goes into the coach and sees the LED pad flashing on the microwave so we've got power.

Then he unplugs the coach and enables the inverter and the panel on the microwave starts flashing again so we got power. He disables the inverter and starts the generator and he has power to the microwave again.

Here is what I think I know (but there's room for doubt):

The batteries and connections are fine
The inverter charges the batteries and supplies power to the coach
The ATS works fine
The generator generates power
50 amp power supply works fine
120/1/60 works fine

Left to do:

Check 30 amp supply dogbone

Should I be happy that everything is working again or worried that it's going to happen again at the most inconvenient possible time? Regardless, I have no idea what can be done when everything is working fine.

One final question: Does it matter that the chassis battery's are the sealed type but the house batteries are flooded cell? Doesn't the inverter charge both and aren't there different algorithms for each type?
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:16 PM   #13
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If by "sealed" you mean "no maintenance" like a car battery, they're still flooded cells. If for some reason you have AGM chassis batteries, they're different but the charging voltage specs are very close to those for flooded cells. I wouldn't think you'd have to worry either way.
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Old 07-20-2010, 05:43 AM   #14
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Thanks

I want to thank all of you your responses. I've learned a lot from all this and it's given me a lot of tools and understanding that I can use down the road.
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