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Old 12-20-2014, 09:34 PM   #29
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I kind of liked this surge protector with voltage protection and remote display. A full Electrical Management System. It protects from low or high voltage, open neutral, open ground etc not just a surge.
EMS-HW50C
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:57 AM   #30
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Buy it--buy it now....lifetime warranty, most others, a year --any questions?
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by middleman210 View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong but if I take a meter and check between hot legs of the outlet I get 220. If I check to either hot to neutral or ground I get 110. Therefore it is 50 amps 220 volt. Is this correct or when I check between the two hot legs should I read nothing thus indicating a 110 circuit. Not trying to start a discussion on this just curious if my thinking is flawed.
Correct...2x110= your 220, I have never seen a 50amp 110......
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:18 AM   #32
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12.5 kv but to what I was saying, that I have never investigated where as what the more, shall I say fancier coaches with dryers actually use 240 in their coaches, or they use two 120 of the same phase and use a phase converter to create a second phase just for the 240 demand, just saying,

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Wow... This is so basic and yet folks do not understand

The power transformer (Be it on the pole or in a box on, or under, the ground) there has a primary, this is hooked to the high tension (Very high voltage) lines that run around the country, and a secondary This is the part that delivers your power to your house, Be it Sticks & Bricks or wheeled.

This secondary is center tapped,, That is the 240 volt winding, in the exact center, has a Tap, (3rd wire) this is the neutral, it is always the neutral,

At the service box it is tied to ground In a campground this may be the outlet box or the master panel back where the meter hides,depending on the code in that place.

The problem with trusting grounds is that ground is not always zero. There can be a rather large difference between two different ground rods.
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:42 AM   #33
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what I was saying, is that if there is a circuit in use, with a load, the nuetral is hot if you get in series between the load and panel, this is where people get lit up and it can happen for both hot and neutral, I use to work in a lot dairy plants where you can't shut off hardly anything, and working in attics in junction boxes with very little light, trying to add or trouble shoot something, getting hit more than I like because of sweat and metal all around, and your picture is right, of coarse, but as long as there is no load, a/c is alternating current, so if there is a load that neutral under load is hot half the cycle,, that is what I was saying,,,,sir, please do not take anything I say as derogatory

you can also have a three wire 460/480 grounded third leg distribution, which are outlawed now, but back when I was a young buck I was hit a few times thinking a circuit was dead, and that 480lit my fire, guess that is why my hair has no color now

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Not sure what you are trying to say here but the neutral and ground run in parallel back to the the breaker box where they are tied together.
The only way there would be a short to ground or the ground wire is if the neutral was open between your point of contact and breaker box.
The neutral should always be or near zero ohms to ground.



OR looking at it a different way:
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:09 AM   #34
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you can also have a three wire 460/480 grounded third leg distribution, which are outlawed now, but back when I was a young buck I was hit a few times thinking a circuit was dead, and that 480lit my fire, guess that is why my hair has no color now
I think what you are talking is what we call the wild leg. It was not going through the two knife disconnect but wired around them in the old Witte engine plant building. Yes it lit me up a time or two also when working on the bridge crane putting the rollers back on the the power wires.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:20 AM   #35
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you can also have a three wire 460/480 grounded third leg distribution, which are outlawed now, but back when I was a young buck I was hit a few times thinking a circuit was dead, and that 480lit my fire, guess that is why my hair has no color now[/QUOTE]


Just came a crossed a 208 high leg ground on a service we did at a welding shop. Kept throwing me for a loop when checking. This was after BGE the meter then it dawned on me that in the old building I ran into the same thing checking three phase outlets. Yup it can be very dangerous
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:52 PM   #36
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The Neutral wire should always be within a few volts of ground, no matter what the load is, Ideally less than one volt difference but alas, they use wires that are too small so you end up with a voltage equal to the current times the resistance.

But we digress to a very high degree from what the O/P wanted to know. (These threads often do due to the amount of myth out there).

His question has been answered, I posted a link to the product he needs.
Of course the kicker in that is the word "Ideally" I have seen cases where that was far from the case (And in my own home no less).
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:54 PM   #37
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12.5 kv but to what I was saying, that I have never investigated where as what the more, shall I say fancier coaches with dryers actually use 240 in their coaches, or they use two 120 of the same phase and use a phase converter to create a second phase just for the 240 demand, just saying,
They have split phase 240 VAC so they have a grounded neutral to supply 120 VAC. Typically they split 120 VAC loads either side of the neutral and have 240 VAC for things like an electric dryer just like a normal house wiring job. No special phase converters needed. ;-)

FWIW just to add to the confusion the power difference is because of no second leg for 30 A. 30 A 120 VAC service is 120 x 30 = 3600 W. 50 A service because of the second 120 VAC leg is 50 x 120 = 6000 W x 2 = 12000 W.
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Old 12-23-2014, 11:43 AM   #38
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Okay I've read all the posts. Before I covered my coach I was going to run a circuit from my inside breaker box (MH) so I could maybe power the house if we lost power( don't need to start on that subject) from the coach. Fired up the gen after removing the cover of the breaker panel to check the power expecting to find 240 at the breakers but found both legs were the same 120v phase. Haven't tried it plugged into a 50 amp post at a campround. So I guess what I'm asking is , does a 50amp bring 240v to the breaker panel inside the coach? I was really surprised that the 5500w gen was only 120v. although it was 120volts on the same phase to both sides of the panel. I do understand electrical as I just retired from 44 years in the HVAC-R field. Just having a hard time understanding how they wire these things!
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Old 12-23-2014, 01:41 PM   #39
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Interesting--I know that my Onan 7500 puts out 2 120vac legs of 35 amps each to power the coach. Since mine, and most coaches, dont use any 240vac applications like hot water heaters or kitchen ranges, the idea of phasing never occured to me. However, to balance the load on the returning single neutral, you would think the genset would phase the two legs--just like on shore power [properly wired of course]...
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Old 12-24-2014, 06:47 PM   #40
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Most ,if not all, Onan gensets used in RVs only put out 120 volts via two single pole breakers located on the genset. 6kw (2)30 amp breaker/8 kW (2)35 amp breaker. The total output of a 6000 watt genset is 50 amps and the 8000 watt is 66.6 amps.
This is all per the Cumminsonan data sheets.
The ampacity of #6 thwn wire is 65amps per the National Electric Code.
Therefore the single neutral from the genset to the transfer switch and up to the breaker panel is adequately sized especially considering that the genset is rarely run for any length of time at full rated load.
I would imagine that those of you who have 10kw gensets have the next bigger gauge wire to handle the additional ampacity.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:42 PM   #41
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Wow. Very good information. Thanks for all the informative posts

AND Happy Holidays...
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:36 PM   #42
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Quote:
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I think what you are talking is what we call the wild leg. It was not going through the two knife disconnect but wired around them in the old Witte engine plant building. Yes it lit me up a time or two also when working on the bridge crane putting the rollers back on the the power wires.
I believe he is talking about a corner ground on a 3 phase, 3 wire delta connected transformer bank.

The wild or high leg is on a 4 wire delta connected bank. This connection typically provides 240 volt 3 phase AND 120/240 volt single phase.
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