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Old 10-16-2014, 08:53 PM   #15
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Some of what I wrote may be worded awkwardly. Let me try again. I don't suggest any of the laws involved here make any logically sense. They are just what they are.

First let's define the terms:
GVWR: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GVCWR: Gross Vehicle Combined Weight Rating (The total GVWR of the MH and GVWR anything it tows.)

In every state I have researched, the sum of the GVWR of the MH and GVWR of the toad must not exceed the GVCWR of the MH. There is no way to reduce those weights. They are provided by the manufactures and are controlling.

If you think this is a mess, look at the mess about getting a driver's license for a MH weighting more than 26,000 lbs.

Good Luck!
Wil
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:00 PM   #16
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This has been posted here before, but I'll do it again:


Towing capacity is normally the lowest of:

- GCWR minus weight of MH when ready to travel (loaded).

- Hitch capacity.

- MH tow capacity.

- Chassis tow capacity...some times the last two are different.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky68D View Post
A friend just bought a motorhome with a GVWR of 22,000# and GCWR of 26,000#. This allows for a toad to tip the scales at 4000#. But, if he wants to tow a car weighing 4500#, is it ok to limit loading the MH to 21,500# so as to not exceed the GCWR? The hitch is rated for 5000#. Thanks.
Well, the fact that the hitch is rated for 5000lb. would indicate that he could tow a 4500 lb. toad. I think the real determining factor would be the actual weight of the motorhome.

I think he's drawing a real fine line on this one. He would have to be able to know that with the toad hooked up, he's in no way at any time moving beyond the allowed specifications.

Personally, I think he should find a much lighter toad. I don't like to operate in such tight margins. Because my coach has a 10,000 lb hitch, I installed a 10,000 lb tow bar. My toad weighs about 4500 lb. I have such a huge margin of safety I never have to worry about it.

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Old 10-16-2014, 10:07 PM   #18
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From my old trucking days if the tractor gets heavier then the trailer weight (load) must be reduced a like amount. On my Boeing 747 if the load is heavier then we must carry less fuel-resulting in a tech (fuel) stop. The maximum gross weight ratings are still observed in both cases.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wil01 View Post
Some of what I wrote may be worded awkwardly. Let me try again. I don't suggest any of the laws involved here make any logically sense. They are just what they are.

First let's define the terms:
GVWR: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GVCWR: Gross Vehicle Combined Weight Rating (The total GVWR of the MH and GVWR anything it tows.)

In every state I have researched, the sum of the GVWR of the MH and GVWR of the toad must not exceed the GVCWR of the MH. There is no way to reduce those weights. They are provided by the manufactures and are controlling.

If you think this is a mess, look at the mess about getting a driver's license for a MH weighting more than 26,000 lbs.

Good Luck!
Wil
No one wants to reduce the RATING. The GVCWR is the total weight not to be exceeded by the total weights of the RV, toad, and all the stuff carried in both vehicles. Keith pointed out the GVWR of the RV was 4,000# less than the GVCWR, leaving 4,000# for the toad. Since the toad weighed in at 4,500#, by making sure the STUFF carried in the RV stayed at least 500# less than the GVWR, it wouldn't result in exceeding the GVCWR. I agreed with his logic and verified it was a proper conclusion. At no time does this exceed any of the ratings.

GVWR is determined by the total of the axle capacities of the RV. GVCWR is determined by the total braking and engine capacities of the RV. Towing or loading in excess of the GVCWR is creating issues that could cause handling, stopping, or tire issues and should never be done.
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Old 10-17-2014, 06:41 AM   #20
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The tow capacity on the new F150 is 12,500 lbs. Why would you think you can't pull a 4500 lb car with a MH? My guess is the MH manufacturers left several thousand lbs. on the table for liability reasons. I doubt that you could break a 5,000 lb hitch with twice that weight. CYA
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Old 10-17-2014, 06:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by wil01 View Post
We must all remember it is the rating that counts, not the actual weight. Be warned!

I have just finished researching this question with SC and NC DMV and LE. It ain't pretty.
Could you possibly start a new topic to explain what you asked and how you were answered by these DMVs?

I think it would be interesting.

Thanks,

Bruce
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
Please explain how he will get a ticket or lose his whole estate with the ratings and numbers Keith explained. No ratings were exceeded. Also, can you site a case where a person lost his estate because of an RV accident?

Actually, it doesn't even have to be an accident.

There was a case a couple years back where a guy in a m/h pulling a toad had a blowout (on the toad IIRC) and didn't notice, the dead tire caught fire and was flinging bits of burning rubber. One (or more) of those bits started a forest fire. The State (Michigan?) sued him for their losses, fire-fighting, lose of timber, etc., etc., and the bill was many millions. They even garnished his pension.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:22 AM   #23
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Actually, it doesn't even have to be an accident.

There was a case a couple years back where a guy in a m/h pulling a toad had a blowout (on the toad IIRC) and didn't notice, the dead tire caught fire and was flinging bits of burning rubber. One (or more) of those bits started a forest fire. The State (Michigan?) sued him for their losses, fire-fighting, lose of timber, etc., etc., and the bill was many millions. They even garnished his pension.
What does that have to do with weight limits?
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BFlinn181 View Post
No one wants to reduce the RATING. The GVCWR is the total weight not to be exceeded by the total weights of the RV, toad, and all the stuff carried in both vehicles. Keith pointed out the GVWR of the RV was 4,000# less than the GVCWR, leaving 4,000# for the toad. Since the toad weighed in at 4,500#, by making sure the STUFF carried in the RV stayed at least 500# less than the GVWR, it wouldn't result in exceeding the GVCWR. I agreed with his logic and verified it was a proper conclusion. At no time does this exceed any of the ratings.

GVWR is determined by the total of the axle capacities of the RV. GVCWR is determined by the total braking and engine capacities of the RV. Towing or loading in excess of the GVCWR is creating issues that could cause handling, stopping, or tire issues and should never be done.
BFlinn181

If the "ACTUAL weights" do NOT EXCEED any of the "specified weight RATINGS", (whether GVWR, GCWR, or GAWR), the weight of your coach, (and/or your toad), will cause NO legal problems... (and NO mechanical trouble).

The "key" is:
1.) Understanding weight ratings, (see: Weight Ratings Explained)
2.) Loading and towing accordingly.

Mel
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Murf2u View Post
Actually, it doesn't even have to be an accident.

There was a case a couple years back where a guy in a m/h pulling a toad had a blowout (on the toad IIRC) and didn't notice, the dead tire caught fire and was flinging bits of burning rubber. One (or more) of those bits started a forest fire. The State (Michigan?) sued him for their losses, fire-fighting, lose of timber, etc., etc., and the bill was many millions. They even garnished his pension.

If you're talking about the 1993 incident in IDAHO, it wasn't quite as you remember:
Idaho Offers Settlement To Couple In Forest Fire Case The Couple Unknowingly Towed A Burning Car. It Sparked A Fire That Cost $1.3 Million To Put Out. - Philly.com

And it has nothing to do with this topic about towing within rated limits of the RV + toad as described.
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:40 PM   #26
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It's amazing to me how much false information and opinions are given on RV forums. Maybe it has to do with the RV life style. Here are the facts about the law and vehicle weights that can be verified with any DMV or LE office.

The limits in the law are based on the Ratings the manufacturer puts on the vehicle nameplate. Seldom, if ever, will a non commercial vehicle be weighed to determine if the rig meets the weight limits of the law. Except for obvious overweight, the actual weigh doesn't count and will seldom be obtained.

Every vehicle has a nameplate installed by the manufacturer. GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) will always appear on that nameplate.

If the vehicle is approved to tow anything, a GVCWR (Gross Vehicle Combined Weight Rating) will also be on the nameplate.

If the sum of the MH GVWR and the toad GVWR exceeds the GVCWR of the motorhome, the rig is in violation of the law. Remember these are ratings, not actual weights.

You can't fudge it, the nameplate tells the whole story as far as the law is concerned.

Good Luck!
Wil
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by wil01 View Post
It's amazing to me how much false information and opinions are given on RV forums. Maybe it has to do with the RV life style.
......snip....
It seems like you've done a lot of research on this topic- I think that if you were to post some links to the actual source(s?) of the facts upon which you base your posts you'd get further along.

Absent those, it's just another opinion, know what I mean?
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Old 10-17-2014, 01:28 PM   #28
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Hummmmm.... very interesting subject. I think I tend to agree with Wil. Since there is no provision for a LEO to weigh a mh or toad, whether at a traffic stop or accident, it will make no difference to them if the mh or toad "actually" weighs less than their posted GVWR as there is no way to verify those weights. Therefore, they can ONLY go by the mfg'ers posted gross weight ratings.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Ron
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