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Old 09-22-2016, 07:11 PM   #1
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Fuel Options

I wasn't sure where to post. I have a Detroit Diesel S60. B5 is acceptable and B20 is a BIG no-no. I was traveling the OK, TX, and NM panhandle and the truck stops all had B20. What are my options?
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:48 AM   #2
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I've run a couple tanks of B20 trough my coach with little effect.

If your concerned, fuel when you still have 1/2 tank so it will be diluted down some and refuel at 1/2 tank again when your through b20 land.
Don't think it will be a problem to run an occasional tank through.

good luck

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Old 09-23-2016, 10:38 AM   #3
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Is there something specific that says do not run B20?
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:54 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by dons2346 View Post
Is there something specific that says do not run B20?
I am curious as well.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:01 PM   #5
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From my understanding most diesel passenger cars are not supposed to use B20 and it can actually void your warranty by using B20, only B5 is acceptable.
But most large truck diesel engines are ok to use the B20 and some pure B100.
Like I said this is my understanding, I did not stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.
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Old 09-23-2016, 04:09 PM   #6
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Detroit Diesel approves blends up to B20 for Series 60 engines made after 2004. For earlier production, nothing greater than B5 is recommended. See this official statement:
https://www.demanddetroit.com/pdf/su..._Statement.pdf

But "not recommended" doesn't mean it will explode or anything. I'd do what pointrow says if its just a temporary situation.

Did you ask at the truck stops if they have a B5 pump tucked away somewhere? The older 60's aren't the only engine where B5 is specified. The Mercedes MBE diesels and Cummins engines prior to 2002 are some other examples.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:52 AM   #7
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Everybody thanks for the input. The coach has a 1998 version of a DDEC III DD60. The DD policy is:

DETROIT BIODIESEL POLICY:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ENGINE COMPATIBLITY:

DD13, DD15, DD16 engines: Biodiesel blends up to 5% are allowed. Biodiesel blends must meet the specifications listed in this document.

Series 60 Engines: Series 60 engines manufactured after 2004 are compatible with biodiesel blends up to 20%. It is not recommended to run blends higher than 5% on Series 60 engines manufactured prior to 2004, as they may contain materials that are not compatible with biodiesel2. Biodiesel blends must meet the specifications listed in this document.
MBE900 / 4000 Engines: Biodiesel blends up to 5% are allowed. Biodiesel blends must meet the specifications listed in this document.

I had a seal issue with the AquaHot that was attributed to B20. I am concerned with the seal issue. I carry spare fuel filters to deal with the scrubbing issue. The service manager where the coach is serviced, Stewart & Stevenson, was very adamant about not using bio-fuel. I get about 5 mpg so I am somewhat limited on distance. I also own a '04 Sprinter where bio-diesel is not recommended. I have asked for straight diesel and have been directed to farm diesel pumps, i.e. red diesel.
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:12 PM   #8
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Why don't you fuel at a Wal-Mart or Sams Club that has diesel pumps?
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Old 09-24-2016, 01:22 PM   #9
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I'm curious about possibly using kerosene and diesel blended together as an option. Our county bus system used to proudly advertise that they bought a more expensive diesel/kerosene blended fuel for the city buses because it resulted in less pollution, and less maintenance on the engines. I've seen fuel stations with a kerosene pump off to the side.

Any experts know if this is a good or bad idea ?
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by pasdad1 View Post
I'm curious about possibly using kerosene and diesel blended together as an option. Our county bus system used to proudly advertise that they bought a more expensive diesel/kerosene blended fuel for the city buses because it resulted in less pollution, and less maintenance on the engines. I've seen fuel stations with a kerosene pump off to the side.

Any experts know if this is a good or bad idea ?
#1 diesel is essentially kerosene. If you ever run a winter blend during the cold season, you are running a blend of #1 and #2.

High concentrations of bio-diesel are very susceptible to gelling and plugging fuel filters in cold weather.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:06 PM   #11
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Wow, B20 looks like a potential can of worms for some RV's. From Cummins :

FAQ: The use of B20 biodiesel blends in Cummins Engines
Issued: March 2007
What Cummins engines can be used with B20 biodiesel?
The current approved engine models are as follows:
On-Highway: ISX, ISM, ISL, ISC and ISB engines certified to EPA ’02 and later emissions standards, ISB, ISC and ISL engines certified to Euro3

Feel okay, but there is more:

Are there any special requirements for fuel filters?
Cummins requires the use of a StrataPore™ fuel filter media, and strongly recommends using Cummins Filtration filters equipped with StrataPore™ media.

Do I need to modify any service intervals when switching from petrodiesel to biodiesel?
Due to the solvent nature of biodiesel, and the potential for ‘cleaning’ of the vehicle fuel tank and lines, new fuel filters must be installed when switching to biodiesel on used engines. Fuel filters will need to be replaced at half the standard interval for the next two fuel filter changes

Are there any biodiesel fuel storage guidelines?
Use biodiesel fuel within six months of its manufacture. Biodiesel has lower oxidation stability compared to petrodiesel. Avoid storing equipment with biodiesel blends in the fuel system for more than three months.


What materials are incompatible with biodiesel?
Natural rubber, nitrile, and butyl rubber are particularly susceptible to degradation. Also, copper, bronze, brass, tin, lead and zinc can cause deposit formations. The use of these materials and coatings must be avoided for fuel tanks and fuel lines.
Note: Contact your vehicle manufacturer to determine if any of the OEM supplied components are at risk with biodiesel in order to prevent engine or vehicle damage.


The use of B20 caused a 3% increase in fuel consumption, consistent with the lower
energy content of this fuel. Installation of the DPF caused a 1% fuel economy penalty for both 2007 certification diesel and B20.
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Old 09-25-2016, 07:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers View Post
Why don't you fuel at a Wal-Mart or Sams Club that has diesel pumps?
At many Walmarts I have seen the sticker noting that the diesel can contain from 5% to 20% biodiesel or biomass diesel.

I have the same issue as the OP in that my older c8.3 Cummins is not recommended for use with the higher percentage biodiesel according to Cummins. Flying J and Pilot websites are good about listing the biodiesel content for individual stations and surprisingly there are a number of those truckstops that have less than 20%. You can call to verify but if you do make sure you talk to a supervisor, the clerks usually don't have a clue.

I have had better luck with smaller independent truck stops and will search for them on the web prior to needing fuel. I also always try to fill up at the half-way mark so on the very few occasions that I have had to use some 20% it will be diluted and I will look for a low biodiesel stop for my next fill-up. This adds some additional stress to traveling but has worked for 44,000 miles not leaks or problems yet.
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Old 09-25-2016, 08:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasdad1 View Post
I'm curious about possibly using kerosene and diesel blended together as an option. Our county bus system used to proudly advertise that they bought a more expensive diesel/kerosene blended fuel for the city buses because it resulted in less pollution, and less maintenance on the engines. I've seen fuel stations with a kerosene pump off to the side.

Any experts know if this is a good or bad idea ?

Not addressing the mechanical aspects of this, but if you blend it yourself, ie; you pump x amount of diesel, then move over to the kerosene pump and pump x amount of kerosene, you are setting yourself up for a fine as the kerosene does not have road tax added to the price (even if it IS more expensive). Basically in the Laws eyes, it is the same as adding farm (dyed) fuel to your tank . . . Just saying
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:43 AM   #14
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Not addressing the mechanical aspects of this, but if you blend it yourself, ie; you pump x amount of diesel, then move over to the kerosene pump and pump x amount of kerosene, you are setting yourself up for a fine as the kerosene does not have road tax added to the price (even if it IS more expensive). Basically in the Laws eyes, it is the same as adding farm (dyed) fuel to your tank . . . Just saying

I think you could simply say the kerosene is for your diesel generator, which is not a lie. 🙂🙂🙂
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