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Old 06-24-2015, 09:56 PM   #1
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Full wall slide (FWS) question(s)

I've been monitoring many of the issues reported with these large slides in several of the mfr forums. One discussion that puzzles me is the reveal tolerances that seem to be what one has to constantly monitor on Newmar coaches with these huge slides. But at least it's easy to see because the slides fit flush with the sidewall.

I mean, I'd think monitoring this spacing before deploying/retracting would apply to any slide....or am I missing something that makes Newmar's have issues with keeping these FWS's square in those openings? I've never even thought of monitoring this with any of the RV's we've had for the past 15 years....but then, the largest slide I've ever had is the LR/DR slide. Maybe those & smaller slides don't "shift" in the opening like the FWS's do.

I don't want any mfr bashing (it's against the rules anyway). I'm just wanting to know what's up with keeping FWS's square in the opening & how to check for the evenness in a mfr that has trim that covers up that reveal.

Lori-
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Old 06-25-2015, 12:16 AM   #2
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"NLOVNIT".......I know what posts your talking about, but realize that there are two maybe three threads where someone is having issues. I was checking mine when I first bought my coach because I read the same threads. Mine hasn't been an issue. On a couple of occasions, it didn't shut all the way (wasn't visible) and it rattled right behind my head. I later stopped, opened it 6" and then closed it. With that said, I did the same thing with my Monaco Diplomat on a few occasions when it did the same thing.

The most I've seen my 30' slide move either front or back in an unlevel campground is maybe a 1/4" difference in the reveal. My 12' slide on my old Monaco would move more than that whenever I had the jacks down in my level side yard.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:34 PM   #3
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Your slide question and proper positioning of the coach is very important to the slide's operation.
I like to call it the "shoe box effect". Take a typical shoe box out of the garbage, seems there always one there at my house, if you know what I mean, and pretend it is a model of your coach body. Try twisting the complete box & lid and you will find it is quite rigid, a lot like the coach body before full body slides. Now take the lid off, opening the entire side up so a full body slide could be built and slid inside just like your coach. I think you'll find it quite easy to twist out of position where the front end is no longer true parallel to the back end. The same thing applies to your coach body. If it's twisted, the coach has to apply that same twist to the slide through the slide track system and if you operate the slide while the coach is twisted, you can be sure the stress on the track system is going to provide troubles in your future.
The coach doesn't have to be perfectly level, the front can be up or down, the sides can be up or down from the other, but IT CAN'T BE TWISTED FRONT TO REAR.
I have Swinteck rack and pinion on my slides and a Swinteck hydraulic leveling system. I like to level my coach manually and if you follow Swinteck instructions for manual operation, it can leave your coach in a twist, which can be very damaging to the rack & pinion system. The system just doesn't allow for anything except very minor tolerances from true parallel.
Do every thing you can to be sure the coach isn't in a twisted position before operating your full body slide.
The manufacturers haven't yet developed a system to tell you when the front end is true parallel to the back end indicating it's more safe to operate the slide. I think they should work on that.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLOVNIT View Post
I've been monitoring many of the issues reported with these large slides in several of the mfr forums. One discussion that puzzles me is the reveal tolerances that seem to be what one has to constantly monitor on Newmar coaches with these huge slides. But at least it's easy to see because the slides fit flush with the sidewall.

I mean, I'd think monitoring this spacing before deploying/retracting would apply to any slide....or am I missing something that makes Newmar's have issues with keeping these FWS's square in those openings? I've never even thought of monitoring this with any of the RV's we've had for the past 15 years....but then, the largest slide I've ever had is the LR/DR slide. Maybe those & smaller slides don't "shift" in the opening like the FWS's do.

I don't want any mfr bashing (it's against the rules anyway). I'm just wanting to know what's up with keeping FWS's square in the opening & how to check for the evenness in a mfr that has trim that covers up that reveal.

Lori-
We have a 28 ft FWS that carries the kitchen, residential fridge and stacked washer and dryer. The FWS and dinette slides are hydraulic and the bedroom is electric. The FWS goes out about 24-26" so when extended most of the weight is still on the frame of the coach and supported by the 10 air bags with outboard rails. It's a flat floor design and we have had no problem with this slide. The dinette slide, about 16 ft goes out further to about 32-34". Monaco/Holiday lap their slides over the opening area of the slide and they ride on large nylon pads with wide rubber rollers over the tile floor without leaving any marks. Biggest issue is to make sure the electric hydraulic pump has high voltage when working. Low batteries will destroy these pumps. I always have the motor running or am on shore power when moving the slides.
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:59 PM   #5
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The big difference between Newmar and the other brands: No molding.

All the others use a large molding to cover the gap, think putting a piece of trim over the gaps on your car doors. Newmar has their gap right there for the whole world to see, no cover.

In doing so, theirs is smaller from the start. All coaches twist, anybody that says theirs doesn't is a fool. Newmar has made some pretty big changes in the 2016 models and now even has the only full wall slide with a tile floor.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:28 AM   #6
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Thanks all for your input. I really appreciate it.

I'm still wanting to know what's the deal with keeping these FWS's square in their opening. Is it the "shoebox effect" alank described above that has compromised the coach body structure so it isn't as rigid? I know I've never encounterd this with my smaller slides.

I'm also still wanting to know how to check reveal on a coach w/trim around the edges.

I'm asking these questions because a used coach w/FWS's is probably in our future &, being used, it'll be one originally mfr'd when the mfr's hadn't yet nailed down how to structurally compensate for them.

Lori-
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by NLOVNIT View Post
Thanks all for your input. I really appreciate it.

I'm still wanting to know what's the deal with keeping these FWS's square in their opening. Is it the "shoebox effect" alank described above that has compromised the coach body structure so it isn't as rigid? I know I've never encounterd this with my smaller slides.

I'm also still wanting to know how to check reveal on a coach w/trim around the edges.

I'm asking these questions because a used coach w/FWS's is probably in our future &, being used, it'll be one originally mfr'd when the mfr's hadn't yet nailed down how to structurally compensate for them.

Lori-
The key to keeping the side wall structure integrity straight begins with the foundation. RoadMaster chassis prior to 2014 uses a rail configuration that places the main rails further apart than most coaches. Then the use of more air bags that are outward mounted as close to the outer perimeter of the coach as possible makes for a rock solid foundation. This configuration is similar to what is used in the $1-2 million dollar coaches. The only part of the chassis that is not steel is the roof and the slide boxes. If looking for an older coach I'd look for the RoadMaster chassis then the FWS.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:56 AM   #8
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NP with my FWS. Not 100% square and never expect to to be. Good answers you getting.
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Old 06-26-2015, 12:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLOVNIT View Post
Thanks all for your input. I really appreciate it.

I'm still wanting to know what's the deal with keeping these FWS's square in their opening. Is it the "shoebox effect" alank described above that has compromised the coach body structure so it isn't as rigid? I know I've never encounterd this with my smaller slides.

I'm also still wanting to know how to check reveal on a coach w/trim around the edges.

I'm asking these questions because a used coach w/FWS's is probably in our future &, being used, it'll be one originally mfr'd when the mfr's hadn't yet nailed down how to structurally compensate for them.

Lori-

The deal with keeping them square and never in countering this before; You have and do, just with smaller slides its a smaller issue. So small you don't even notice it. But when you triple the size of the slide, things begins to change. On most coaches the opening gap (think door gap on your car) is covered so they have a larger opening, that you never see. If you removed that trim you would look at and say "why is the gap so big", well it's so big so that it never should (in theory) bind.

Binding occurs because the couch body will twist, but because the slide is separate, the slide doesn't twist. The coaches with a tighter gap have a greater chance of the gap (reveal) closing at a corner. When coach builders weren't building max number of coaches, the issue was few and far between. More coaches, more people, more issues and design changes happen to correct them.

The only coaches with the "issue" are those on the lighter frames. Mine has to be in a pretty good twist before I see the gap (reveal) close. Then I just move the coach around till it's not a issue. It can do it when I level, either air or jacks.

The reveal is easy to see, just look at a frameless slide coach when the slides are in. Newmar, Entegra, Newell, Foretravel and all Prevost conversions. Tiffin I heard was working on frameless slide, but I don't know if they have them yet. Of those only Newmar has a full wall slide and then it's only those of us with lower line coaches that are mindful of the reveal.

If mine had a larger gap, I never would have noticed anything. But it wouldn't look as nice with the slides in.

All the others use a moulding to cover the gap, so they make their gap as large as they want. Then hide it.

To me its a nonissue. When I park, I look over my shoulder to see where my slide lock is setting. If I like it, done. If not I move the coach till I'm happy.
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Old 06-26-2015, 06:10 PM   #10
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Thank you, John. It all makes sense now knowing the opening tolerances are tighter in those mfr's. Plus I will know what to look for on that "next" coach.

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Old 06-27-2015, 03:16 PM   #11
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Lori,
To answer your question as to how those who have molding check the reveal. We don't. All I do is level before extending. My levelers and slides are Power Gear and have been trouble-free. I am very thankful that I don't have the Schwintek slides.
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Old 06-27-2015, 04:48 PM   #12
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Thank you ChasA & again to everyone who responded. Since I've not had trouble with smaller slides for the past 15 years, I'll not worry about ours. It will be interesting to see how the mfr's compensate for the structure twisting & get these huge slides to be as trouble free as the small ones have been.

Lori-
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Old 06-27-2015, 06:39 PM   #13
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I'm not sure about all the postings lately and the "New" guidelines about extending slide first and then leveling. But I'm just a woman so what do I know? I do know that my Newmar Mountain Aire is 19 years old and I've been following the manual that came with it that states to level first before extending slide and since that has worked for the past 19 years without a single problem, think I'll keep doing it.

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Old 06-28-2015, 07:58 AM   #14
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A strong foundation will also help keep everything square.

When we were shopping there were two coach builders (at least among those we were interested in and able to afford) that I felt had really dealt with twist as best as could be expected. American coach uses what they call a bridge truss system and Entegra's construction is similar.

At the time we were shopping full tile (except the slides) was becoming very popular and a number of coach owners were reporting cracked tiles, indicating some kind of movement in the floor. If you research construction techniques (most manufacturers post video of their manufacturing process) you'll see the typical chassis starts with the two frame rails tying the front and rear clips together then the coach manufacturer welds some relatively thin wall two inch square tube together to form the storage bay area. That tube is in no way structural. The American and Entegra center sections are structural and literally built similar to a bridge truss. I reasoned at the time that I was far less likely to have issues with slide alignment and cracked floor tile with one of those two brands and ultimately chose the Revolution.
To date that has proved to be true.

I've started looking at Newmar recently, I really like one of their floorplans. In researching I've found that they have introduced what they are calling their "Star" chassis for 2016 which features similar truss style structure in the center section (along with a few other nice features - including the afore mentioned tile in the slides), making them very attractive. Now if they'd stop laminating "wood" (Masonite) into their exterior walls and use something other than the fiberglass bat insulation (both will absorb water like a sponge) in the walls.
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