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Old 02-01-2016, 06:16 PM   #29
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But you folks are all focused on a 40 ft, 40,000 lb beast that will not fit in most of the parks we frequent or fit in the driveway. That is why the whole argument is rather pointless. As folks keep saying, figure out what you need/want in a house and your decision will probably be made for you. "Better" is not a defineable term by itself. What is better for one person is not necessarily better for somebody else.

FWIW Since Scatterbrain and I were typing at the same time. He would take the DP, I would save 10's of thousands taking the gas, not need to upgrade my drivers license and not have a problem being too heavy for my driveway. My version of better. Not his. That is why "better" is a nebulous term.
Because the OP started the thread asking about performance.
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:16 PM   #30
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Some of the replies can be misleading as to what will really work best for you and if the people really have driven whichever model they are speaking to over a long period of time, not just on a test drive or what they read. And are they matching year to year, not a 2005 gas model to a new diesel model. For example one that drove a 2005 gas model for years and then decided to go diesel, may not have any idea how the newer model gas engines have changed and how well they drive. It is all how the MH is engineered to the chassis you chose.

The best replies are the ones who state find out what works best for you and then go with that. Driving a MH is not a race whether you have a diesel or gas, and the most important thing is that the size and floorplan work best for you. Do your research like you are doing now and that will help you buy what really works best for the type of use you plan on. Are you a boondocker, Full Hookup, National/ State Campground kind of traveler, that may add to your decision making process.

We have the Newmar Canyon Star(gas engine) which has a lot of the same amenities that the diesel models come with. We have no problems on the road, it tracks great, does not get pushed around by the wind or big trucks, and has plenty of power to go anywhere we want. We have traveled through the Sierras extensively, and have had one trip through the Rockies with no issues. I really don't think gas mileage is a consideration as they are fairly close either way. Ours does have 362 HP, and Newmar adds a few things to the chassis that other manufacturers might not that makes the handling great. Is a diesel a better drive, most likely depending on age, but in our case the Newmar Ventanna, which is the equivalent of our model with the diesel engine, was about $100,000 more for the same size and most of the same amenities. Also on the gas engine I can do all my own maintenance, and I really don't like anyone working on my cars, boat, MH ect unless I absolutely have to.

Only you can figure out what works best for you and what will get you out the door within your pricepoint/budget. Looking for a MH is half the fun of buying one, so look at as many as you can, drive as many as you can, and you will see the difference in quality of the different brands, and be able to make the best decision for you.
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Scatterbrain View Post
The Canyon Star (CS) rides on a Ford 26,000lb chassis (GVWR) with a Triton V10 motor making 320HP (according to Newmar) or 362HP according to Ford. According to Ford it puts out 457ft-lbs of torque.
According to Ford the 2016 chassis with the V10 and 6 speed trans is rated at 320 HP.
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:31 PM   #32
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My 39' gasser drives and handles just fine with no suspension add ons. I chased my previous 37" gasser all over the road. The difference? My 39 footer is built on the best gas coach chassis ever built, the Workhorse UFO rear engine. I wish I had air ride but that is the only thing missing for my needs.

If you buy new or used, drive both diesel and gas and decide what meets your needs. Hopefully it is the same one that your wife likes for the floor plan as that is usually the deciding factor.
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:34 PM   #33
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OK So I'll tell him what he really should know. I drove my cousins 30 foot winnebago class A gasser on a workhorse chassis. which had the biggest gas engine they put in their MH. I was pushed all over the road by wash wind from both the front of square faced trucks and then by the suction draft of square back trailer. The noise in the cab was so loud that we had to speak very loudly so we finally stopped talking. The ride was otherwise ok but the engine really sounds like it is working hard and at 65 MPH we had very little head room on that engine. He has taken this rig to Alaska and been in every state and province in the continental area.. Personally, I made up my mind in those 250 miles on route 95 that I would never buy such a vehicle. He bought it because he was worried about the restrictions of "30 feet" at camp ground. My mind - that is a ridiculous reason. to many other places to go.

I went right out and bought what he really wanted. Always think ahead and buy what you might want for your third purchase. As it turns out the 36 DP has never been refused access to any CG nor have I ever had any problem with driving it anywhere. it is so comfortable and smooth that it feels much like driving my Cadillac STS. I have more room then he has, can go further without a fill up, can drive longer because it is less tiring and I can pull my trailer with the toys. He can only pull his little chevy spark or Geo. He get 6 MPH I get 8+ even pulling. on the flat we get 10 mph running lite. There really is no comparison between the two totally different but similar MH. 6 foot longer and 14 inches taller. no wash from trucks, tracks straight and rides so good I can even hear my wife when she talks. (normally I don't hear her but that is just a husband thing)

NOW for the Dollars. He spent for a new MH from the factory to his spec about $70K and now he has 139K miles and I spent $38K and on a 10 year old MH that had 72K miles now has 129 K miles. So now both rigs are about the same age, his a little new and about the same miles.

He is on his third generator, all kinds of problems with suspension worn out, lot of past and present engine and transmission troubles. Wheel bearing, heat from the engine affects cables and other components. I have had a few things like an injector pump, some minor brake issues.

So there you have it. Spend you money where you want. No body know but yourself what you need or want or can afford.
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:37 PM   #34
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Upgrade to a diesel pusher if/when you can afford it. The diesel is sooo much quieter, climbs up hills sooo much better, and rides sooo much smoother on the Freightliner or Spartan chassis.

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Old 02-01-2016, 06:48 PM   #35
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OK So I'll tell him what he really should know. I drove my cousins 30 foot winnebago class A gasser on a workhorse chassis. which had the biggest gas engine they put in their MH. I was pushed all over the road by wash wind from both the front of square faced trucks and then by the suction draft of square back trailer. The noise in the cab was so loud that we had to speak very loudly so we finally stopped talking. The ride was otherwise ok but the engine really sounds like it is working hard and at 65 MPH we had very little head room on that engine. He has taken this rig to Alaska and been in every state and province in the continental area.. Personally, I made up my mind in those 250 miles on route 95 that I would never buy such a vehicle. He bought it because he was worried about the restrictions of "30 feet" at camp ground. My mind - that is a ridiculous reason. to many other places to go.

I went right out and bought what he really wanted. Always think ahead and buy what you might want for your third purchase. As it turns out the 36 DP has never been refused access to any CG nor have I ever had any problem with driving it anywhere. it is so comfortable and smooth that it feels much like driving my Cadillac STS. I have more room then he has, can go further without a fill up, can drive longer because it is less tiring and I can pull my trailer with the toys. He can only pull his little chevy spark or Geo. He get 6 MPH I get 8+ even pulling. on the flat we get 10 mph running lite. There really is no comparison between the two totally different but similar MH. 6 foot longer and 14 inches taller. no wash from trucks, tracks straight and rides so good I can even hear my wife when she talks. (normally I don't hear her but that is just a husband thing)

NOW for the Dollars. He spent for a new MH from the factory to his spec about $70K and now he has 139K miles and I spent $38K and on a 10 year old MH that had 72K miles now has 129 K miles. So now both rigs are about the same age, his a little new and about the same miles.

He is on his third generator, all kinds of problems with suspension worn out, lot of past and present engine and transmission troubles. Wheel bearing, heat from the engine affects cables and other components. I have had a few things like an injector pump, some minor brake issues.

So there you have it. Spend you money where you want. No body know but yourself what you need or want or can afford.

This is the kind of reply I was referring to, you can't "tell him what he really should know" if you are comparing the ride and handling to a gas MH you drove that is years old. The newer gas engine chassis drive is much better today and the ride and engine sound is not nearly as bad as before. Like anything as time changes improvements in handling and safety, as well as quality are made in the newer models. I'm sure the 2016 model of our car drives and handles much better than the 2006 model we own.

The Workhorse Chassis, which is a great chassis, but it has not been manufactured in several years. So what he should really know is compare apples to apples, drive new and used, gas and diesel, and then figure out what his budget is, and what the difference is worth to him. I have driven in many older diesels that do not drive or handle as well as our newer gas model, does that make gas better than diesel.....no.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:04 PM   #36
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This is the kind of reply I was referring to, you can't "tell him what he really should know" if you are comparing the ride and handling to a gas MH you drove that is years old. The newer gas engine chassis drive is much better today and the ride and engine sound is not nearly as bad as before. Like anything as time changes improvements in handling and safety, as well as quality are made in the newer models. I'm sure the 2016 model of our car drives and handles much better than the 2006 model we own.

The Workhorse Chassis, which is a great chassis, but it has not been manufactured in several years. So what he should really know is compare apples to apples, drive new and used, gas and diesel, and then figure out what his budget is, and what the difference is worth to him. I have driven in many older diesels that do not drive or handle as well as our newer gas model, does that make gas better than diesel.....no.
I agree.
It's nice to drive a newer up to date RV. Many of us won't drive a 1999 MH for getting laughed at.
I often pass old rigs like his because of the smell.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:45 PM   #37
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Gas vs Diesel

Don't be confused with your budget or affordability meaning your purchase price. I had the same questions not too long ago myself. There were many good suggestions and things to think about that I learned on here. I could have bought a DP for around what I bought my gasser for. For me there was too much of a gamble buying a DP because of so many different engine models, some with bad history, some just confusing to understand. For me the costs of some of the repairs on the DP's was something I wasn't comfortable with, not the general maintenance but the repairs when things go bad. I bought a 2005 gasser 37' on a Workhorse W 24 chassis. Drove it home 525 mile in one day, said I wasn't going to do that but it drove nice was very comfortable and handled the passing trucks good and not nearly as bad everyone suggested it would. So for us we found a nice unit with a floor plan we liked with new tires and low milage and will probably only drive it 1500-2000 miles a yr. until I retire. The 8.1 and Allison 5 speed tranny with the grade brake shifts and drives great. Thought I might be able relate to your questions because I faced it too.


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Old 02-01-2016, 08:10 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ladagobago View Post
OK So I'll tell him what he really should know. I drove my cousins 30 foot winnebago class A gasser on a workhorse chassis. which had the biggest gas engine they put in their MH. I was pushed all over the road by wash wind from both the front of square faced trucks and then by the suction draft of square back trailer. The noise in the cab was so loud that we had to speak very loudly so we finally stopped talking. The ride was otherwise ok but the engine really sounds like it is working hard and at 65 MPH we had very little head room on that engine. He has taken this rig to Alaska and been in every state and province in the continental area.. Personally, I made up my mind in those 250 miles on route 95 that I would never buy such a vehicle. He bought it because he was worried about the restrictions of "30 feet" at camp ground. My mind - that is a ridiculous reason. to many other places to go...
And that is why one needs more information. A 30 footer will be on a 18K lbs chassis, rather than a W22. Even looking at the W22, they changed shocks mid 2004, which improved the handling. Even at that, you can add trac bars and make a dramatic difference in handling for a few hundred bucks, much less than the cost of a pusher. Makes me really wonder what engine was in it or what year that was. The 8.1 pushes 22k lbs just fine at 65 or more. Sure it won't like cruising at 80+, but only crazies like me do that. My dads gets around 9 mpg.

BTY: Noise is purely a manufacturing issue, has nothing to do with the chassis. Anyone can choose how much sound deadening they want to design into the engine compartment.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:21 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike and Cha View Post
Some of the replies can be misleading as to what will really work best for you and if the people really have driven whichever model they are speaking to over a long period of time, not just on a test drive or what they read. And are they matching year to year, not a 2005 gas model to a new diesel model. For example one that drove a 2005 gas model for years and then decided to go diesel, may not have any idea how the newer model gas engines have changed and how well they drive. It is all how the MH is engineered to the chassis you chose.

The best replies are the ones who state find out what works best for you and then go with that. Driving a MH is not a race whether you have a diesel or gas, and the most important thing is that the size and floorplan work best for you. Do your research like you are doing now and that will help you buy what really works best for the type of use you plan on. Are you a boondocker, Full Hookup, National/ State Campground kind of traveler, that may add to your decision making process.

We have the Newmar Canyon Star(gas engine) which has a lot of the same amenities that the diesel models come with. We have no problems on the road, it tracks great, does not get pushed around by the wind or big trucks, and has plenty of power to go anywhere we want. We have traveled through the Sierras extensively, and have had one trip through the Rockies with no issues. I really don't think gas mileage is a consideration as they are fairly close either way. Ours does have 362 HP, and Newmar adds a few things to the chassis that other manufacturers might not that makes the handling great. Is a diesel a better drive, most likely depending on age, but in our case the Newmar Ventanna, which is the equivalent of our model with the diesel engine, was about $100,000 more for the same size and most of the same amenities. Also on the gas engine I can do all my own maintenance, and I really don't like anyone working on my cars, boat, MH ect unless I absolutely have to.

Only you can figure out what works best for you and what will get you out the door within your pricepoint/budget. Looking for a MH is half the fun of buying one, so look at as many as you can, drive as many as you can, and you will see the difference in quality of the different brands, and be able to make the best decision for you.
Best post ever on this touchy subject. Pretty much the same reason we bought ours....it works for us perfectly. Diesel or gas nothing right or wrong with either if it does what you need it to do.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:42 PM   #40
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If horsepower is equal then the diesel will have more torque. I've never had a gas powered A class pass me in the mountains.
More torque will have absolutely no affect on the rate of speed up a mountain, assuming both engines are properly geared. More torque DOES affect drivability, because it does not need to downshift to achieve power. As I did state, if the HP is somewhat close, more torque is preferred, not because it is faster, but because most don't like the engine shifting all the time.

There is a tendency for folk to view downshifting as meaning an engine is struggling. That is not true. It is just a characteristic of how that particular engine achieves its power. It can be annoying, which is why people prefer high torque engines.

Talk to someone who has a 300 HP or 350 HP pusher. They will tell you how strong and powerful it is. Then ask then what speed they pull a 6% grade, and they will tell you 40 to 45, some as low as 35 mph. Then ask a gasser what they pull a 6% grade at. Most will say 50 to 55 mph. Both engines have similar HP ratings, so the lighter coach holds a higher speed. The point is some of these smaller diesels have a low power to weight ratio, which affects how they drive when pulling steep mountains.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:54 AM   #41
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Some of the replies can be misleading as to what will really work best for you and if the people really have driven whichever model they are speaking to over a long period of time, not just on a test drive or what they read. And are they matching year to year, not a 2005 gas model to a new diesel model. For example one that drove a 2005 gas model for years and then decided to go diesel, may not have any idea how the newer model gas engines have changed and how well they drive. It is all how the MH is engineered to the chassis you chose.

The best replies are the ones who state find out what works best for you and then go with that. Driving a MH is not a race whether you have a diesel or gas, and the most important thing is that the size and floorplan work best for you. Do your research like you are doing now and that will help you buy what really works best for the type of use you plan on. Are you a boondocker, Full Hookup, National/ State Campground kind of traveler, that may add to your decision making process.

We have the Newmar Canyon Star(gas engine) which has a lot of the same amenities that the diesel models come with. We have no problems on the road, it tracks great, does not get pushed around by the wind or big trucks, and has plenty of power to go anywhere we want. We have traveled through the Sierras extensively, and have had one trip through the Rockies with no issues. I really don't think gas mileage is a consideration as they are fairly close either way. Ours does have 362 HP, and Newmar adds a few things to the chassis that other manufacturers might not that makes the handling great. Is a diesel a better drive, most likely depending on age, but in our case the Newmar Ventanna, which is the equivalent of our model with the diesel engine, was about $100,000 more for the same size and most of the same amenities. Also on the gas engine I can do all my own maintenance, and I really don't like anyone working on my cars, boat, MH ect unless I absolutely have to.

Only you can figure out what works best for you and what will get you out the door within your pricepoint/budget. Looking for a MH is half the fun of buying one, so look at as many as you can, drive as many as you can, and you will see the difference in quality of the different brands, and be able to make the best decision for you.
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Originally Posted by Rider99 View Post
Best post ever on this touchy subject. Pretty much the same reason we bought ours....it works for us perfectly. Diesel or gas nothing right or wrong with either if it does what you need it to do.
Yes, a very well written response to this never ending "discussion".

Mike and Cha thank you.

Maybe every search on Gas v. diesel should be pointed to this well thought out reply. Do you have one for "new v. used"!

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Old 02-02-2016, 06:29 AM   #42
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It's time to move on as this thread has gone off topic and personal attacks have begun.Our Community Rules do not permit either of these.
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