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Old 08-27-2003, 09:35 AM   #29
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Thanks for your responses. Driver, if we went to the place in Grants Pass, it would have to be part of a trip. How long do these things take? We just want it to handle well, so it doesn't take so much energy to drive. As it is now, there is no relaxed driving going on. It also has some overheating problem ... not bad, but am thinking we should have a fan clutch installed. Part of what I get to wondering about is if it is worth the investment on a 94 coach, or if this is my excuse to upgrade. Sounds like we could easily put a couple thousand into solving these problems???? Or is that a low estimate???

1994 Winnebago Brave 30 ft.
1996 Chrysler Minivan
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Old 08-27-2003, 10:55 AM   #30
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Lee and Susan

Reference Grants Pass

Your best bet, is to give them a call on the phone(800) 245-8309. I have found them to be very resposive to your questions, and not in a big rush to get you off the phone. DriVer or anyone else would only be speculating to how long it will take.
The last time I talked to them on the phone, I got the impression it would be at least 2 days. Day 1 for evaulation and start of work, Day 2 finish work, and road test. But this was per my conversation and my problems.

cad_man

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Old 08-30-2003, 03:09 PM   #31
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I just wanted to pass on that since I couldn't get Workhorse to install all four Monroe RVGC shocks on my '03 Southwind, that I chose to do the rears myself. I bought two of the rear shocks at A-1 Shocks in Houston ($49 ea). They were overnighted to me at $19 total. I bought a 3/4" drive set last year and put it to good effort this morning. Also required a deep 1" socket and thin 15/16" wrench to take the nut off the bottom stud, and a 1 1/8" wrench and socket to get the top bolt and nut loosened. The 24" 3/4 ratchet was REALLY important to have to get some leverage on the top nut and bolt. Once loosened they came apart easily. No problem with tightening too much as the shock has spacers at the top, and no way to bend the ears. They do have to be really tight though to prevent noise. I barely got them off with with that ratchet, and I tightened them as much as I could with it as well. The bottom was tightened to the point that the rubber bulged to the same diameter as the endcaps. Really about a 40 minute job and saved $105 installation I was going to pay when the fronts were put on.

My wife and I did a road test and I am telling you all that there was a huge difference with only doing the rears. I noticed it immeadiately in required steering effort, and she went back to the rear to lay on the bed to see how motion was. She was amazed at the how stable everything was. It did seem to emphasize the front bounce action a little or maybe I was just more sensitive. All in all I am seriously looking at the need for that SS track bar at the moment. We'll see how things are when the fronts are done. My wife said that the amount I was moving the steering wheel as we traveled down the road was way less.

One thing I wanted to point out that maybe other leaf spring suspensions may not have is a bar and clamp set that is on the front of the front leafs and on the back of the back leafs on the W22. The bar is heavily clamped to the front (or back) of each leaf pair and would act to stop spring wobble in that each spring end is held parallel to the other. Not saying it well, but the springs can't bend as a parallelogram, they have to stay square to each other at the place where the bar is clamped on. I think this goes a long way toward dealing with lateral movement, although at the axle and of course on the side where the bar isn't clamped, there is a little torsion allowed in the springs.

It may be that the shocks first recommendation will solve a huge number of issues on these chassies; and I would have to say that the OEM shocks are junk and should have the same level of priority for replacement as the front under warranty. Shame on any manufacturer for allowing these pieces of junk (in my opinion only) to be placed on these coaches.

A very happy Stew!

Oh, and on a sad note my Brake Buddy died after only three trips. Blows every fuse I put in it and the compression doesn't run.
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Old 08-30-2003, 11:26 PM   #32
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First let me say thanks to one and all for all good info on this site. Thanks driver for the info in rear stablizer had it put on boy does it make a differance in turns and corners . Have the rig in for sevicing now and have some waranty work done. After reading about porpoising when I took the rig in I'm have that fixed also under waranty (sp) . If this fixs the porpoiesing then I will have a perfit ride

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Old 09-02-2003, 12:00 PM   #33
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I had my front shocks repaced under warranty before installing the rear track bar that could not install before re-routing my exhaust. The shocks made such a difference, I even questioned the need for the track bar! However, I finally got the track bar installed and have made a seven hundred mile trip to Kansas. The track bar really made a difference when dealing with crosswinds and passing semi's.

I still am amazed at the difference just replacing the shocks made. I think the new shocks and the track bar really made the motor home a pleasue to drive.

Chuck Sample
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Old 09-02-2003, 01:27 PM   #34
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This has been such good information. We have decided to have 4 Bilsteins installed first and then see where to go from there. It is scheduled for next week. It will be interesting to see how much of a difference just that step will make.

1994 Winnebago Brave 30 ft.
1996 Chrysler Minivan
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Old 09-02-2003, 01:29 PM   #35
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sccaracer:
I think the new shocks and the track bar really made the motor home a pleasue to drive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK! Sounds like you had a great time. Keep in touch.

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Old 09-07-2003, 10:32 AM   #36
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...I even questioned the need for the track bar! However, I finally got the track bar installed and have made a seven hundred mile trip to Kansas. The track bar really made a difference when dealing with crosswinds and passing semi's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Track bar definitely still on the consideration list, but I need to get my fronts in stock to install. We just completed a 900 mile trip to South Dakota. Really enjoyed the drive with just the rear shocks changed out. Did notice some shift as the trucks went by, but no where near as bad as before. Did the return 450 on a single leg yesterday and really arrived back pretty darn relaxed. Can't wait to complete this shock thing and then see what we can do on the track bar.

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Old 09-09-2003, 12:50 PM   #37
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>... but I need to get my fronts in stock to install. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shocks got in at the dealer. Being installed over the next couple of days. Will get a short 500 mile trip to New Mexico this weekend to try them out.

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Old 09-11-2003, 06:58 PM   #38
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If anyone is interested NAPA stocks the Monroe Gas Magnum shocks, their part number is the same as Monroe. Their price was also lower than any parts houses.
I put them on mine in March last year and could not believe how much softer the ride was and the softer ride did not detract from the handling. I have made no other chassis modifications and am totally satisfied with my F53 chassis handling. Beats the he#$ out of my previous P30 chassies.

Don Harris
Savannah, GA
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1995 Saturn SW2 Toad, Blue Ox Aventa towing system, SMI Toad brake.
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Old 09-14-2003, 05:28 PM   #39
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Will get a short 500 mile trip to New Mexico this weekend to try them out. Stew<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, fronts are on and have 574 miles on the set of four Monroe GCRV shocks on a very nice run down to Taos. I would say the backs added 70% to the equation with better stability of the backend and better driveability. The fronts added a much smaller 30% driveability quotient, but nailed the porpoising cold. Huge difference on bumps, cracked, slab breaks. Tightened up the front end a little as well as they are a little stiffer. Enough?? Well I still felt those trucks go by pretty well and wasn't feeling like I was on rails. Overall this is wonderfully driveable as it sits, but I think it's time to add the rear track bar. Stay tuned.

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Old 10-30-2003, 09:21 PM   #40
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Since this is my first motorhome, and I've only got 3,000 miles on it, I don't really know what I should feel and what I shouldn't. But I do know that my MH does bounce around and sway a lot, and I'm reading some things in this thread that could make my wife a much happier passenger.

First, we have the W-20 chassis, which if I understand correctly, has 20 inches shorter wheelbase than the W-22. We also have 19.5 inch tires. I don't think I have a big problem with porpoising, and that may be due to the shorter wheelbase, but I know I do have some bouncing on uneven surfaces. (though my wife might argue that we do have a problem here - she says she gets more sick from riding in the MH than she does from flying in turbulence)

My larger concern is rear end sway. My first thought is that it's just the physics of having a 4,000 lb toad bouncing around behind our 19,000 lb MH - especially since the Liberty has a high center of gravity on a short wheelbase, and bounces around a lot even on its own. The MH handles pretty well on its own, but takes on less savory characteristics when the Jeep is hooked up.

All I know is that I'm worn out after 3 hours behind the wheel, even with rest stops. But since I'm new to all of this, I just chalked it up to being part of the whole experience. I just assumed that this is how it was supposed to feel, and I'd just back way off on the throttle.

So, I appreciate the observations and recommendations in this thread (as well as other threads). And since a few dollars invested in the suspension makes a lot more sense than trading in the MH...

It sounds like replacing the shocks would help the bounce (porpoising) - what kind of hoops did you have to go through to get them covered under warranty? The standard response I get when I complain about something is "that's normal" or "they all do that".
If I can't get them replaced under warranty, should I go ahead and replace them myself? Based on the positive responses in this thread, it appears that the answer is YES. Should I replace all 4, or would I get the most bang for the buck by just doing the fronts?

Second - what does a track bar do? Would it help reduce the rear end sway? Are there track bars for both the front and the rear? Any ballpark ideas about how much they cost (installed, since I'm not yet mechanically inclined)? What modofications were necessary to make it fit?

Pat, Betty and our Shepherd Sasha
'03 Winnebago Adventurer 33V w/Workhorse
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Old 10-31-2003, 02:21 AM   #41
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LongGone:
I'm reading some things in this thread that could make my wife a much happier passenger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is always a master mind at work.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First, we have the W-20 chassis, which if I understand correctly, has 20 inches shorter wheelbase than the W-22. We also have 19.5 inch tires.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>W 20s & W22s can come in the same length chassis so wheelbase has noting to do with it. It's all about where the weight is placed on the chassis.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't think I have a big problem with porpoising, and that may be due to the shorter wheelbase, but I know I do have some bouncing on uneven surfaces. (though my wife might argue that we do have a problem here - she says she gets more sick from riding in the MH than she does from flying in turbulence)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The short wheelbase again has relatively little to do with porpoising, the problem is in those original OEM shocks, they don't do a good job in dampening the up and down motions of the motorhome. Workhorse is entering into a partnership with a major shock manufacturer for the new bigger W series. They do recognize the deficiency with those black shocks we all have or had. Your dealership should not hesitate to replace your front shocks, and while you're at it have them put on a set of rears so you can have a matched set. The rears may not be covered under warranty. What you'll get are Monroe RV Magnums.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My larger concern is rear end sway. My first thought is that it's just the physics of having a 4,000 lb toad bouncing around behind our 19,000 lb MH - especially since the Liberty has a high center of gravity on a short wheelbase, and bounces around a lot even on its own.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Liberty has nothing to do with your rear end sway so be a good owner and apologize. Now what we have here are forces that are acting to push your motorhome axially in a yawing motion. That would be the tail wagging the dog scenario however it's not the fault of the towed vehicle. There is a bit of play if you will between the rear axle, the springs and the chassis. It's the nature of the beast. In order to tame this we have chosen to install a track bar on the rear of the motorhome. You can see my report about the installation here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All I know is that I'm worn out after 3 hours behind the wheel, even with rest stops. But since I'm new to all of this, I just chalked it up to being part of the whole experience. I just assumed that this is how it was supposed to feel, and I'd just back way off on the throttle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I personally can guarantee that if you apply the changes that we've applied to our units on yours that you will in fact arrive to your destination somewhat tired but a lot less frazzled. The track bar will go a long way in making the motorhome go straight. That's why they call it a super-steer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It sounds like replacing the shocks would help the bounce (porpoising) - what kind of hoops did you have to go through to get them covered under warranty?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just stand your ground and insist on it. They'll come around.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Should I go ahead and replace them myself? Based on the positive responses in this thread, it appears that the answer is YES.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You should be able to get 2 under warranty, the fronts. Some folks have went to the top of the list and bought adjustable Koni shocks with great results however they'll run about $500.+

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Should I replace all 4, or would I get the most bang for the buck by just doing the fronts?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Definitely 4, I'm getting my rears in the spring.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Second - what does a track bar do? Would it help reduce the rear end sway? Are there track What modifications were necessary to make it fit?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No modifications were necessary, just bolts on. Available for both axles one from Henderson (R) and the other from Davis (F).

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"We Will " 343 " Never Forget"</font color>

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</font color>

[This message was edited by DriVer on Fri October 31 2003 at 08:21 AM.]
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Old 11-02-2003, 03:30 PM   #42
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Are the Monroe Magnums the answer? Since I will be paying for the rear shocks, would it make that much difference to have Konis all around or would you get the Monroes? This is giving me a headache!

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2003 Mountain Aire 3778 W-22
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