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Old 03-25-2016, 10:44 AM   #29
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The only thing you did wrong was not name names. Idiots like these need to be called out and your friends need the knowledge to protect themselves.


NEVER be afraid to walk away. Sales people are a lying breed, in my experience, and the crappier their product, the more they have to lie. You don't want to be married to these people when it comes time for warranty work.
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:20 AM   #30
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Yelp and Google reviews help in getting some action.
I was ripped off some with a home repair. I posted a Google review and got one refund. Then when they saw I didn't take the review down they sent me another refund. With those two refunds I think I paid a reasonable price.
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:11 PM   #31
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Be careful recording phone calls. Even though Federal law states that only one of the parties needs to consent, some states (CA is one of them) requires BOTH parties consent before you can record a conversation.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:13 PM   #32
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Be careful recording phone calls. Even though Federal law states that only one of the parties needs to consent, some states (CA is one of them) requires BOTH parties consent before you can record a conversation.
Not in Arizona

Recording Phone Calls and Conversations | Digital Media Law Project
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:42 PM   #33
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Some people should never be salesmen - as a former military recruiter I wonder how some "sales" types sleep at night.
From my experience, the problem is that there are not many real 'salesmen' (or to be PC, salespeople) anymore. Most are only 'order takers' and have little product knowledge, even less product knowledge of their competitors' products and no salesmanship. I'm always amazed when asking questions of the salesperson and they simply don't know the answer to some really basic questions. The worst has to be automobile stores, where it seems the salespeople must go to lunch and then when they come back from lunch, pull into a completely different manufacturer / dealer lot... and they starting selling from there. Gee, they should at least read the very brochures they hand out to customers! -RT
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:55 PM   #34
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From my experience, the problem is that there are not many real 'salesmen' (or to be PC, salespeople) anymore. Most are only 'order takers' and have little product knowledge, even less product knowledge of their competitors' products and no salesmanship. I'm always amazed when asking questions of the salesperson and they simply don't know the answer to some really basic questions. The worst has to be automobile stores, where it seems the salespeople must go to lunch and then when they come back from lunch, pull into a completely different manufacturer / dealer lot... and they starting selling from there. Gee, they should at least read the very brochures they hand out to customers! -RT

Yeah 10-4 on that. One thing that seems to be fading here and there.......passion. I mean the real stuff know what I mean? I want a sales person/dealer for instance, who is a true RV enthusiast. One who has a love for what they're selling. Therefore they would have real knowledge of the product, and competitors products too. They would then also have a desire, a conscientious one, to see their customer completely satisfied.

They are out there, not as many as there used to be I think.......if there ever was "many". (?)


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Old 03-25-2016, 11:54 PM   #35
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The only thing you did wrong was not name names. Idiots like these need to be called out and your friends need the knowledge to protect themselves.


NEVER be afraid to walk away. Sales people are a lying breed, in my experience, and the crappier their product, the more they have to lie. You don't want to be married to these people when it comes time for warranty work.

The names are there, just click on the pdf link or read the thread at glamisdunes.co,, but you have to login on their site. DL the pdf (post #20) all is there.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:02 AM   #36
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Be careful recording phone calls. Even though Federal law states that only one of the parties needs to consent, some states (CA is one of them) requires BOTH parties consent before you can record a conversation.
WA is one of the 11 states that require both parties consent, the others are California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:01 AM   #37
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Asking for consent alone may make them a but more honest.

Even if not recording.

We try to use email for all communication with vendors as less time being on hold and talking to less informed folks.

Always copy yourself so it is in your inbox as reminder.

Get better results this way and can use their own emails to remind them.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:11 AM   #38
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Words/recordings mean nothing (before) and after you sign a contract.

The contract rules. If it isn't in writing, it is meaningless.

If, you are relying upon something the sales person said write it on the contract before you sign it.

But, really, the cost of a lawyer and time in court is usually means you lose.

Put down the lowest down payment you can and be prepared to walk away.
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Old 03-26-2016, 12:07 PM   #39
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After my first retirement, I ended up as a majority owner of two car dealerships. New franchises (five of them under two roofs in two different locations), and used car sides of them as well. For about 9 years. I am VERY familiar with car business, but I never sold RVs (or owned one until last July). I don't own dealerships anymore.

Had to give you a little background, just so you know where I'm coming from.

January 3rd this year, I decided to drive 800 miles away (long story as to why drive, why not fly), to see in person ClassA I was interested in. I've been on the phone/email with the dealer in question since late November, but didn't have time to go over there to look and touch (I would NEVER buy a vehicle without seeing/touching/driving).

On January 4th, I left a SUBSTANTIAL cash deposit on the unit I liked, with written agreement for the selling dealer to perform small repairs that we agreed on. Drove home (800 miles), and was ready to go fly in to pick it up in ten days.

I had to arrange for extra ranch hands for my absence (I own a horse ranch), work out the flight plan, fuel, airport fees, dog/house sitter, wife had to arrange vacation time,.......the works. A day before the flight, dealer calls to say that the problem with Aquahot is bigger than anticipated, and the repairing facility will not be finished on time!

Long story,.....canceled all arrangements, and waited another 3 Weeks!!! He called me that the unit is ready for pick up, but since the actual date was up in the air up to that point, there was no ranch hands available, no dog sitter, wife couldn't get vacation time,....so we decided to DRIVE over there on the weekend. We started driving Friday late night, and mid day Saturday we were 200 miles (with 600 behind us) away from destination, when the dealer called to tell me that he CAN NOT deliver the coach till Monday, because he has family obligations, that "just came up". I got mildly upset at that point. And guess what he said!??

You guessed it,......."I'll refund your money on Monday". I had to either turn around, or leave my horses/dogs unattended till Monday, continue driving forward, and stay in the hotel till Monday. Tough decision.

I told him I'm coming in to pick the thing up TODAY, and if he is not there, I'll find him at his "family function" easily. I want my coach, or my pound of flesh TODAY.

He cancelled his family function, and delivered the coach later that day. We turned around I drove it 800 miles home, after two sleepless nights on the road. We are VERY happy with the coach.

Why I told you all this? Because it seems that these days of Yelps, Twitters, and Facebooks, business owners are very easy to "refund" something, rather than make things right.

I read the whole PDF OP posted in regards to his experience/communication with the dealer. Since I was the dealer (of different kind), I have a feeling the dealer in question is "back pedaling", and making excuses for his inept salesman (despite some posts that praise him!). Why I think that? Because "Phill" started about "Jeff's" "busy home life with three kids.....". If the guy is so busy with his offsprings, maybe it's time for some time off? Why should a paying customer care about salesman's "busy schedule"?

You know what "Phill"? NEVER (never EVER!) do this to your customers, and you might be ready to retire with few millions in your pocket by the time you're fifty! Next time DO NOT offer "your money back"! Instead, say "what can I do TODAY to make you happy about your experience with us?" And whatever it is,....DO IT! Lose few bucks if you have to (as I'm sure you did before). Not every deal has to be "win". It's good enough if 90% of them are. I'm sure you know this.

Over and out.

Sorry about a long post y'all. It just makes me mad when I hear stories like this. I blame this "new age" of Yelps, Twitters, Facebooks, texts, "smart" phones (nobody ever talks to anybody anymore!!), and shifting blame to someone else.
Hell yes
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Old 03-28-2016, 04:57 PM   #40
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Yeah 10-4 on that. One thing that seems to be fading here and there.......passion. I mean the real stuff know what I mean? I want a sales person/dealer for instance, who is a true RV enthusiast. One who has a love for what they're selling. Therefore they would have real knowledge of the product, and competitors products too. They would then also have a desire, a conscientious one, to see their customer completely satisfied.

They are out there, not as many as there used to be I think.......if there ever was "many". (?)

Regards,
W.D.
As a salesperson who enjoys what he does.. has a wealth of product knowledge/experience.. and has a consultative sales approach.. I tend to agree with you.. I consider myself a "professional", but I won't stoop to the discount game..

However... I constantly read on this forum.. "Who's the cheapest".. heck, we see people driving/flying across the country to buy from the cheapest... Tell me why I should spend the type of time necessary to answer all your questions, only for you to soak up all my knowledge, and then tell me thanks, but I can buy it cheaper three states over..

What's it worth to have a professional guide you through a purchasing decision?

The reason you don't see many Sales Professionals... its simple.. people are cheap.. they don't appreciate the time it takes to be completely immersed in a profession/product.. to know it every which way, so you can answer any/all questions...

I'm not saying you're that way.. and I think everyone should get a good/fair deal... but thanks to Amazon.. there is no need for a sales person.. just do your own research and sell yourself... that way, you only need to be mad at yourself if you bought something you're not happy about..

Sorry.. sometimes jaded sales person here... I love the process of "selling"... but too often, it's "tell me ALL that you know", and then, give it to me at a price where you don't make any money..

How long do I need to do that before I no longer care to spend the time learning my product when it all boils down to a number ???
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Old 03-28-2016, 05:22 PM   #41
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How's that for the rest of the story? Thank you.
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:01 PM   #42
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As a salesperson who enjoys what he does.. has a wealth of product knowledge/experience.. and has a consultative sales approach.. I tend to agree with you.. I consider myself a "professional", but I won't stoop to the discount game..

However... I constantly read on this forum.. "Who's the cheapest".. heck, we see people driving/flying across the country to buy from the cheapest... Tell me why I should spend the type of time necessary to answer all your questions, only for you to soak up all my knowledge, and then tell me thanks, but I can buy it cheaper three states over..

What's it worth to have a professional guide you through a purchasing decision?

The reason you don't see many Sales Professionals... its simple.. people are cheap.. they don't appreciate the time it takes to be completely immersed in a profession/product.. to know it every which way, so you can answer any/all questions...

I'm not saying you're that way.. and I think everyone should get a good/fair deal... but thanks to Amazon.. there is no need for a sales person.. just do your own research and sell yourself... that way, you only need to be mad at yourself if you bought something you're not happy about..

Sorry.. sometimes jaded sales person here... I love the process of "selling"... but too often, it's "tell me ALL that you know", and then, give it to me at a price where you don't make any money..

How long do I need to do that before I no longer care to spend the time learning my product when it all boils down to a number ???
Agree with this.

We are the cheap ones...across the forehead are needle marks from tattoo stating "cheap" but no color as that costs more...

But I believe in sales folks or vendors "owning" their customers.

These folks have the passion above and can truly own their customers.

They have the facts in their head to get the customer hooked so to speak and also determine if they will stay or go cheaper.

We use certian local vendors for this very reason as they take care of us.

Places like home depot do not serve their customers...
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