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Old 04-01-2016, 11:25 AM   #71
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How Much Lying And Price Gouging Does It Take For You To Walk Away From An Rv...

Lots of good input to this thread. The two themes seem to be customer dissatisfaction with their dealer experience and dealers' concerns with how much it costs to sell an RV.

Lets look at some history to get an idea of where this is going. Thirty years ago anyone who wanted to buy a plane ticket had to go to a travel agent. They were the only ones who possessed the high-tech screen and keyboard and knew the magic words to type to pull up flight schedules, make bookings, and print tickets. They also had ticket stock and a heavy duty printer to punch through the five part form. The airlines had to treat the travel agents very well because it was usually the agent sitting at the keyboard who decided which of the four carriers flying that route would get the ticket. No one dared upset the travel agents by suggesting airline direct sales. Then along came the internet, someone took the leap, and that was the end of the travel agency industry. Today very few remain as basically concierge services for the few customers who don't want to or don't have the time to click a few keys to make their own booking for flights, cruises, hotels and cars.

So what can we see in the future of the RV industry? Here are some ideas of what a manufacturer might do and the rest of the industry would have to follow.

First, invest in some software development. The technology exists and bright, talented young people are graduating from colleges each year just itching to get their hands on a project. Start with the high-end, high profit product lines. The customer does a visual on-line walk-through and walk-around of the coach. He can touch an object and see the build options associated with that object. Choose the marble floor option and now you see the marble tile floor. Flip through the floor-plan options and walk through each until you see one you like. Rate each one on a scale of one to three (yes, maybe, no) to come back to your favorites later. Don't understand the difference between engine options? Touch the help button for an explanation and a video by a design engineer.

At the end of the virtual walk-through, you have your build sheet. No salesman's time was wasted on that. Now lets flip to the next screen to complete the contract and submit the deposit. Maybe you want to see an actual coach before you sign. A quick flight to the factory, or maybe the Napa wine country showroom where you have the option of staying overnight in the coach of your dreams. The cost will be deducted from your purchase price when you sign. The bottle of wine is complimentary. You are buying a high end product. Why shouldn't the buying experience be high end?

Change your mind on an option? Immediately see online if it has already been committed in the manufacturing process or if you can still make the change right now.

The cost of dealer delivery prep seems to be a sore point, as well as those darn customers and their kids wandering around the place damaging stuff. What if final prep was done right at the factory? What would happen to product quality if instead of shipping that defect to some unknown dealer on the other side of the country, everybody on the assembly line knew that they were sending it to Bob in the prep building next door who would be bringing it up at the next quality meeting?

Would you pay a little extra to have it road tested with vibration instrumentation, engine diagnostics and maybe some directional acoustic sensors and generally shake it up a little? If the answer is yes, it could become the norm.

Of course you can pick it up right there at the classy factory campground. It's a motorhome after all. Or maybe at the Napa or Orlando campground.

Perhaps some premium factory service centers in key RV cities. Would you be inclined to choose a product that came with a friendly service center with a reputation for treating you courteously and fairly?

Would the first manufacturer to take this step become the Apple of the RV industry?

This is the beauty of the internet and sites like iRV2. Present a problem and you get solutions.

What else?
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Old 04-01-2016, 11:42 AM   #72
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I like your way of thinking...RV dealers are still stuck in the 1980's & 90's...

That is one thing I can't understand. Why ship a product where it has not been 100% correct or road worthy. I believe the answer is "maybe some customers will not see it or care".
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:58 PM   #73
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How much price gouging..

In business it is said; you cannot have the lowest price, service and quality on the same product.
We bought our Tiffin new and supposedly were to get the show price (out the door) as we ordered it.
When we went to pick up our"new" unit we were told they forgot to mention the delivery and PDI fee. And proceeded to tell us we had to pay a couple of grand more than what was agreed to.
We paid the fees and did a quick 30min. PDI. There were over 40 items to be fixed so we made appointments to bring it back. It took them 2 weeks to look at it then 5 weeks to do the work which was awful. They ruined woodwork, slide seals and more and returned it to us a muddy mess. So I am now doing most of the work that I am capable of. I just keep calling Tiffin for parts and service advise.
We did not get any of the three above; price,service, or quality. And this is supposedly the largest family owned dealership. So much for family owned. CW would be a great improvement.
And just because it maybe CW, Home Depot, or Lowes doesn't mean local people are not employed. We went to a locally owned hardware trying to give them business and they didn't have anything that I needed.
They were an Ace Hardware.
Next coach for us will be researched as a quality built unit, sending out price bids, and being able to take it to the factory for service. So factory proximity will be a factor.
Free markets are the essence of Capitalism and I intend to work with that market. Dealers need to "go with the flow" and compete. There are many profit points beside the sale for dealers and they really need to understand the concept of "earning your business".
No one "gave me a job". Been self employed for 47yrs. and still going.
Must be doing something right or am having one helluva string of luck.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:56 PM   #74
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Lets look at some history to get an idea of where this is going.
What else?
I thought what you outlined would happen in the automobile industry - it hasn't. Instead we still have dealers with large inventories.

I would love to be able to go to a store in the mall to order a car the way I wanted it, pay a fixed price and wait for delivery.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:25 PM   #75
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My Dad taught me when I was young how to negotiate the best deal you can, for whatever you are buying, but mostly when purchasing a Car or RV. He always taught me that it wasn't always the lowest price(but that was very important) but also how much you trusted the dealer and the service they provide after the sale. His motto was always the money in my pocket is always better than money in their pocket. Especially when some idiot would say "come on it's only a couple hundred dollars we are talking about" That was back in the 70's when that was still a lot of money.

I think the same holds true today, but there is a just a smarter way to do your research via the internet, so you will be better prepared when you go to the dealership. If the sales/service are equal at different dealerships then the price will be the bottom line. To think otherwise is foolish. Now if you have a good repor with another dealer and you trust them and that their service department will take care of you, then only you can decide what that is worth to you, but certainly not thousands of dollars. When we bought ours we found a dealer we absolutely trusted, but he had no service department, which concerned us. We found that he contracted out his service issues/PDI's to a local facility that was Newmar authorized, and only does service. He also has a Newmar authorized mobile mechanic on contract. His deal was several thousand less than the closest other Newmar dealer and I would match his knowledge of RV's and Newmars against anyone's. We have received excellent service from him both before and after the sale.

What these dealers rely on is the "we take care of you first if you buy from us". The truth be told there are plenty of private family owned RV repair shops who can work on your RV, will do it in a timely manner, will do a much better job, and can get warranty work authorized. And they don't act like they are doing you a favor when you bring your RV in for service, that is what they are in business for. One of the worst service facilities we have ever experienced was a big name RV dealership who promised the world when it came to service but was terrible in the wait time as well as the work performed. Think about it the private repair shop can only rely on the service that they do and word of mouth to keep them in business. And when you are on the road and have a problem should you be expected to wait weeks for service just because you didn't buy from the dealership you are closest to. So the getting service issue is way over rated. We have walked away from dealerships who's salesman had no clue, made up stuff as they went, and couldn't even get the MH buttoned up for a test ride. Remember the saying "you only get one chance to make the first impression".
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Old 04-02-2016, 11:22 AM   #76
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All of these posts to this thread give me reason to kick a lot of tires before I sign. And there are people who come in, see what they think they want, get a price that fits their monthly payment allotment, sign and be on their way.

Now, come the day after delivery and things start to go wrong and are told it will be 4 weeks even before you can be serviced...now the dealer has you by the (you know what). I don't ever want to be in that position. One reason were going to Alaska this summer in our 2013 trailer. I don't want to be held "hostage" because our new RV is broke. We have been lucky in the 3 RV trailers we bought new between Feb and June, the issues could wait till after the fall season. Then I would take it in and say keep it as long as it takes to get it right.

Ourselves, we might be in the market for a new RV (trailer). My wife thinks this year, I'm saying in the next 2-3 years. I'm looking for quality. I'm willing to pay for it. (Winnebago, Arctic Fox, Lance) But, I expect with a higher priced RV trailer, a better build. But still the dealer I might buy it from might sell a $15k trailer right next to the $50k Arctic Fox unit. Is their service department going to service them any differently? No a RV is an RV....

My wife agree on most of our "want" list except one thing. Floorplan. What she wants only is available on a 32' or larger trailer. I'm more looking in the 28' to 30' range. So the search goes on....
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:20 PM   #77
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I thought what you outlined would happen in the automobile industry - it hasn't. Instead we still have dealers with large inventories.



I would love to be able to go to a store in the mall to order a car the way I wanted it, pay a fixed price and wait for delivery.

Somebody has to lead the way. The RV industry tends to be old-school. Based on today's sales figures, Tesla is not a viable company. Will history record Elon Musk as an innovative leader or a failed businessman? Based on this week's pre-sales figures for a car that does not exist, probably the former. Only time will tell. Until then, hang on to that DeLorean.
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Old 04-08-2016, 08:33 AM   #78
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I thought what you outlined would happen in the automobile industry - it hasn't. Instead we still have dealers with large inventories.

I would love to be able to go to a store in the mall to order a car the way I wanted it, pay a fixed price and wait for delivery.
That won't happen because the Dealerships have rigged it in their favor. To see what's up just look at the hoops that Tesla has to go through to sell their cars in many states.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:17 AM   #79
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We have met loads of lower than dirt salespeople. Some of their famous quotes, I have just coach for you, it won't last long, That price is today only,
We have your best interest at heart, What do you mean 390k is still low miles. This unit stands tall and demands a high price as you see and smell mold thick as pollen when you step in the door water leaks down the walls.
I have to have a 1,000 dollar deposit before you can test drive this MH, it is refundable.

It's ok we will pressure blast that rust off the frame and I can see pit holes and erosion in the angle steel just about gone thru. Salesguy says That's minor your just too picky.

I am not a fan of dealers, If I want to be swindled and fleeced I will go to Vegas etc.

Bottom line it only takes visiting 8-10 dealers in 2-3 states to take buying at any dealer totally off my list.


Maybe I expect too much, looking at 45,to70,k coaches
I am done with all dealers period.
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:30 PM   #80
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I like Sales Men and sales Women.
Everybody should have one to............ you know what I mean!
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