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Old 03-04-2014, 09:07 PM   #1
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Question Intellitec BD problem? Or...?

#long read warning. Sorry.

So. I have had the apparently not so unusual issue of no 12v power when I unplug from the pedestal and the generator didn't want to start.

This is a 30 amp 2000 Winnebago Minnie 27P and I have the wiring diagrams. http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2000/133784.pdf

The other one I need to look at more closely is here: http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2000/133781.pdf

Anyway, I set about solving my own problem and I got new GC2 coach batteries and built new battery cables for them. (I tested the gravity of the cells on the old marine batteries, and one of them had a bad cell. No great loss, as they were at least 7 years old.)

I know, building battery cables seems extreme, but I wanted a heavier gauge cable (2/0) and copper lugs.

I installed a new Powermax Boondock 4 stage converter because I did not want the old Magnetek single stage thing touching my new batteries.

For grins, I replaced the 12 v fuse block. The new one has it's own fuse protection, and that seemed like a better thing.

I had to install a new power outlet for the converter because the old magnetek didn't plug in. There was one of those fake receptacle boxes right there, so I converted it to a real one.

I was so happy. I was so proud. I did it myself. Everything worked! for ONE TRIP. And then. Back to square one. No 12v and no generator start.

So I had been suspecting for a while that the solenoid and BD under the step would soon need replacing. The posts and nuts were starting to look corroded.

I replaced the solenoid first. Picked up an Echelin ST80 at Napa and installed that. Nope. That didn't fix the problem. It was really difficult to replace that because the bolts holding it on were so corroded. I had to break the bracket that supported it and dremel the bolts off. I had to do the same thing when I removed the BD, but then I also had to drill new holes because the old ones were NOT accessible from the back side to get a nut on them!

I had no reason not to believe that it wasn't the Intellitec thing at this point, and I called the Intellitec support guy, and he helped me troubleshoot it for sure. I got a reading of 12.77v on the coach battery side. I had a reading of 10.83v on the "generator" side (opposite side).
And there was a small <1v reading across those two posts. He said that meant I definitely had to replace the BD. So he shipped me a new one and I installed that today.

Anyway. Now I have 12.65v on the coach battery side. Initially I got 13.6 and then 15.1v on the "generator" side, and again a small <1v reading across those two posts.

When the old one was installed, the rocker switch on the wall still made it go CLUNK. This one doesn't even do that.

But here are the things that have me puzzled. The S and I posts on the front are supposed to have at least 11v to them and there is 0 on both of them. On the wiring diagram those go to a 9 pin connector somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. Does anyone know where they actually go? On the wiring diagram these are circuits LG and LH. I did JUST notice that the little codes that they annotate on the second diagram are printed on the sheathing of the spaghetti wires, so I will have to go back and look at those again. I think the third skinny wire that goes to the 5 amp fuse operates the rocker switch on the wall. I am actually not convinced that the spade it is making contact with the fuse. I tried both new fuses and the old fuses from the old unit, because they were actually good, but the spade connection doesn't seem to fit well. Which might explain why I have no switching from the rocker switch.

Anyway, I'm real sorry to be so long winded but....does anyone think it seems likely or possible that I got a bad BD from Intellitec right out of the box? Before he sent me the new one he told me that I could troubleshoot it by putting the cables all one lug, but all of the lugs don't actually FIT on one post. He told me that a simple piece of #10 wire was not heavy enough to use as a jumper.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:35 AM   #2
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Hello and We are glad to have you join us here and we look forward to reading of your adventures and experiences. I am sure you will enjoy our website and forums. Good luck, stay safe and keep us posted.
First off it looks like your problem may have started when you changed the battery bank out. I would suggest you go back and make certain that all the wiring, especially ground connections are correct, clean and tight at the battery and on the frame. Have you trouble shot the BD switch? Please give us as much detail as possible on your findings.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:29 AM   #3
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Thanks for the welcome. No the problem did NOT start when I changed the battery bank out. In fact changing the batteries is one of the things that originally solved the problem. The battery connections are fine and the batteries are fully charged. I gave all that detail up there in my original post. Including the details of troubleshooting the BD. Thanks.

Actually I have enjoyed reading a lot of the forum. I have read a lot of it. But I am an avid "lurker" lol.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:52 AM   #4
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Talking Problem solved

It really is a simple thing, but not sure how I am going to ultimately fix it. The spade connector that is supposed to connect to the 5 amp fuse on the new BD was not making contact with the fuse, causing the switch not to operate, causing the contacts on the BD not to make.

Apparently the spade connector is faulty or the wrong one or something and CANNOT reach the fuse. Go figure. I will have to figure out something. But bypassing that fuse got everything working as it should. YAY.

Thanks for all your help. Oh wait....lol!
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:18 AM   #5
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Glad to hear it was a simple problem. At worst it's a new connector and/or fuse holder.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:45 AM   #6
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Am i reading this correctly that you ended up replacing the ST80 from NAPA with the Intellitec Battery Disconnect solenoid? That's good if you did as the ST80 relay is not designed to be used as a Battery Disconnect relay. The ST80 is designed for continuous operation required for the Battery Mode relay only. For the battery disconnect latching solenoid, to prevent a constant drain on the battery when boondocking, there is only a short pulse applied to the BD (LG & LH) to get it to latch ON. When you place the switch in OFF, another short reverse polarity pulse is applied to the BD (again on LG and LH). There should never be a constant voltage across LG and LH.

The best drawing for you is http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/2000/133784.pdf

pdf page 3 shows the BD. Follow circuits LG and LH back to pdf page 2 to the 9 pin connector. As you can see from the drawing that is located below the Galley Range.

Other side of that connector is on pdf page 6, bottom center. Follow LG/LH to pdf page 7 bottom left to BD Switch connector.

Again, the BD switch is a momentary action switch with center off. Only provides a signal when ON or OFF is depressed. Returns to center (no signal) when released. The mechanical latching assembly inside the BD solenoid keeps it in the ordered position when the LG/LH power is removed. That's why it is called a latching solenoid.

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Old 03-05-2014, 02:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave78Chief View Post
Am i reading this correctly that you ended up replacing the ST80 from NAPA with the Intellitec Battery Disconnect solenoid? That's good if you did as the ST80 relay is not designed to be used as a Battery Disconnect relay. The ST80 is designed for continuous operation required for the Battery Mode relay only.
Dave
You misread his post. He said he replaced both the ST80 and the BD solenoid.

I'd say he was a bit unlucky with the new part, but has a good understanding of the system.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer View Post
Glad to hear it was a simple problem. At worst it's a new connector and/or fuse holder.
Well the spade is supposed to slip into the fuse slot ON the Intellitec BD. That wire goes to the switch on the wall.

The spade fits the 5 amp fuse like a glove when I pull the fuse. And it fits into the slot on the BD. But inside there is not making connection between spade and fuse. I'm sure you are familiar with the two 5 amp fuses on the Intellitec BD, right?

Not sure how I am going to remedy that yet, but for now I have the connector wire tied so it just touches the lug on the coach battery side of the BD, because this is highly temporary fix for the problem. I suspect I shall be in search of a longer spade of the same type?
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:17 PM   #9
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Talking

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Originally Posted by loulong View Post
You misread his post. He said he replaced both the ST80 and the BD solenoid.

I'd say he was a bit unlucky with the new part, but has a good understanding of the system.
"girl here"

Yeah I replaced the old Trombetti with an ST80 and also got a new Intellitec BD of the same type that was installed OEM. Bypassing the 5 amp fuse on top of the Intellitec BD with the wire that goes to the switch on the wall enabled me to get everything working as it should.

The ST80 seems to be working fine in place of the old Trombetti.
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassBelle View Post
Well the spade is supposed to slip into the fuse slot ON the Intellitec BD. That wire goes to the switch on the wall.

The spade fits the 5 amp fuse like a glove when I pull the fuse. And it fits into the slot on the BD. But inside there is not making connection between spade and fuse. I'm sure you are familiar with the two 5 amp fuses on the Intellitec BD, right?

Not sure how I am going to remedy that yet, but for now I have the connector wire tied so it just touches the lug on the coach battery side of the BD, because this is highly temporary fix for the problem. I suspect I shall be in search of a longer spade of the same type?
The fuses are wired to the disconnect lugs. The female spade connector should have a 16 gage solid wire wrapped around the cable lug and may have broken short. Installing a new connector and wired to the lug should solve your issue.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassBelle View Post
"girl here"

Yeah I replaced the old Trombetti with an ST80 and also got a new Intellitec BD of the same type that was installed OEM. Bypassing the 5 amp fuse on top of the Intellitec BD with the wire that goes to the switch on the wall enabled me to get everything working as it should.

The ST80 seems to be working fine in place of the old Trombetti.
Sorry 'bout dat. I'll be more careful in the future.

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:49 PM   #12
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The fuses are wired to the disconnect lugs. The female spade connector should have a 16 gage solid wire wrapped around the cable lug and may have broken short. Installing a new connector and wired to the lug should solve your issue.
It needs a different size spade to fit in there than what I currently have. "flatter and taller" than what I think of as a standard spade connector. I think I can get them on amazon.com
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Old 03-11-2014, 04:47 AM   #13
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You can instal any kind of overcurrent protection device rated for 5 amps. In other words, an inline fuse holder with 5 amp fuse by-passing the original is fine.
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