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Old 11-14-2015, 10:23 PM   #15
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When you are not connected to shore power the inverter uses the batteries to produce 120 .It can not backfeed to the panel.
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Old 11-15-2015, 07:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Monkey Run View Post
I suspected it had the transfer switch when I found that the main genset/shore power switch did not have one there for the inverter. The PDF link shows the built in circuit protection for the inverter including those for incoming and outgoing lines. At this point, what I cannot figure out is what is preventing the inverter current from feeding back into the A/C switch box when the shore power is turned off. The circuits have common connections such as outlets. Unless there is another breaker box hidden somewhere....
The transfer switch you are thinking about is connected between the line and generator to let the power panel pick the source it feeds from. Big inverters have another transfer switch that only switches the circuits they power between the inverter output and the line in. When you are not getting AC from the shore cable or generator and turn the inverter on then it feeds power to the two circuits but they are not connected back to the panel due to the second transfer switch.
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Old 11-15-2015, 10:38 AM   #17
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What you all are saying makes perfect sense to me and I do fully understand it. One piece is still missing though, and I suspect I will find the answer when I open the A/C panel. No matter how many relays etc are in place for current switching, all those A/C circuits are tied together via that common A/C panel even when it is not energized, UNLESS... the thing is wired without a bus bar and each circuit is fed individually. Not being familiar with the breakers used for an RV, I suspect the answer lies within.

A few posts back I mentioned the refrigerator and wondered why that circuit is not included in the inverter fed outlets. For those of you whom have changed over to residential refrigerators, what do you do, use coolers and ice when traveling? Or do you energize that circuit once the change is made to the single source refer unit?
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Old 11-15-2015, 01:50 PM   #18
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I have a Xantrax converter with one 25 amp and one 15 amp outlet, in a '07 Dolphin. The only 120v power it provides is to the front TV and the convection microwave. In our last coach, I ran the ref. on 120v via the inverter while driving, as the chassis engine's alternator recharged the house batteries, which fed the inverter, and allowed me to shut off the propane, eliminating the threat of fire/explosion from same. I have yet to dig into the lack of any other inverter-supplied 120v power, and I look forward to reading about your progress!
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Old 11-15-2015, 02:14 PM   #19
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Given that my wife and I don't watch TV or use electric etc while motoring, I see no reason to run refer on propane en route, exactly my sentiments.

Update: the box is a conventional type similar to household stuff, including buss bar. Back to square one. How is the A/C split from the inverter current? I realize that the inverter is feeding two circuits, but how is it not backfeeding via those outlets back to the A/C box? Electric does not have a brain, it goes where it can go. If I were to energize one circuit in my home via an outlet it will back feed to the control panel and out to the other circuits unless I turn those breakers off.

So either these are "special" outlets for such a purpose or another relay switch/distribution box lives someplace in that coach where I cannot find it. If neither of those conditions are present, then I will assume that all the outlets feed from my inverter as well as from the panel and somewhere in a junction box I have lost a connection.
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Old 11-15-2015, 05:21 PM   #20
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Gary,

Here is where I am at as of EOD today.

I killed the shore power to the coach again and tested the A/C panel at each breaker, no power detected on any of them or the buss bars, as expected.

Next I turned the inverter off and tested one of the inverter powered outlets with just shore power connected, it was operational.

From that point I inspected the microwave outlet inside one of the cupboards. That has one romex feed, nothing else.

Conclusion: The inverter relay is creating a "pass-through" condition for the two circuits when shore power is connected and switching back when plugged in. So none of these devices are actually running through the A/C panel I pictured a few posts back, however, if you notice the labeling, you will clearly see that "microwave" is labeled on one of the breakers. Talk about fuzzy math.
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Old 11-15-2015, 06:37 PM   #21
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Inverter or not?

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Originally Posted by Monkey Run View Post
Gary,

Here is where I am at as of EOD today.

I killed the shore power to the coach again and tested the A/C panel at each breaker, no power detected on any of them or the buss bars, as expected.

Next I turned the inverter off and tested one of the inverter powered outlets with just shore power connected, it was operational.

From that point I inspected the microwave outlet inside one of the cupboards. That has one romex feed, nothing else.

Conclusion: The inverter relay is creating a "pass-through" condition for the two circuits when shore power is connected and switching back when plugged in. So none of these devices are actually running through the A/C panel I pictured a few posts back, however, if you notice the labeling, you will clearly see that "microwave" is labeled on one of the breakers. Talk about fuzzy math.

As I indicated above, the relay in your Inverter is a transfer switch for the Inverter circuits.

And to go onward with your findings, the main breaker marked microwave probably feeds the single shore power inlet romex to your Inverter. Either that or a previous owner reworked things when the Inverter was installed.

When shore power is plugged in, turn off the breaker marked microwave and see if you still have microwave power with the Inverter on and then off.


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Old 11-15-2015, 07:05 PM   #22
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FWIW Your basic problem is the order of the connections. If you feed line power to the inverter then the panel you would have backfeed. If you feed power to the panel then the inverter where you split off one or two circuits there is no path back to the panel when the inverter transfer relay is tripped to inverter power.

At least part of the issue is the size of the inverter. 2000 watts is a bit more than 15 Amps. Split over two circuits for convenience it still is not much power when on inverted DC. The pass through lets you have full power on each leg when on AC from the power panel. I expect the folks with a separate AC distribution panel are also set up for more inverter power delivered to more places.
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Old 11-15-2015, 07:05 PM   #23
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As I indicated above, the relay in your Inverter is a transfer switch for the Inverter circuits.

And to go onward with your findings, the main breaker marked microwave probably feeds the single shore power inlet romex to your Inverter. Either that or a previous owner reworked things when the Inverter was installed.

When shore power is plugged in, turn off the breaker marked microwave and see if you still have microwave power with the Inverter on and then off.


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Actually I had done that previously, and yes, power to the microwave no matter what, so I assumed power to inverter. Initially that is what really started confusing me. When I look inside the panel it is neat, unexpected find in a RV after owning numerous boats, so I suspect no previous owner revamping. Thank God.

On order now is a circuit detector and inductive current detector. This will allow me to trace the unmarked breaker and to clarify the components using the one marked microwave.
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Old 11-15-2015, 08:16 PM   #24
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Here is my Freedom 25 schematic.

Two AC inputs (AC to Charger, AC to Inverted Circuits,) with one AC output to Inverted Outlets on two separate branches (Microwave and all other Inverted outlets).

One remote switch to turn Inverter Function on in the absence of AC incoming power.

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Old 11-15-2015, 08:24 PM   #25
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I couldn't make out the labeling on the schematics but I get the premise of it. To be honest, I was hoping to find that all outlets were fed via the inverter unless on shore power but not the case. Mystery of the incorrect AC panel markings will be solved once my testers arrive.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:11 AM   #26
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I couldn't make out the labeling on the schematics but I get the premise of it. To be honest, I was hoping to find that all outlets were fed via the inverter unless on shore power but not the case. Mystery of the incorrect AC panel markings will be solved once my testers arrive.

I apologize for the image quality. I cannot seem to get it to transfer clearly to this forum.
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Old 11-16-2015, 10:30 AM   #27
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I apologize for the image quality. I cannot seem to get it to transfer clearly to this forum.
Certainly no need to apologize, I appreciate all of you folks jumping in and helping a new owner. By the way, I love those Country Coaches but they were out of our price range...this time.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:00 PM   #28
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I am glad you finally got the answer figured out. The Heart inverters accept power from the outside source to do two things.
First to charge your house batteries.
second to pass the outside voltage through the built in transfer switch (within the inverter) to selected outlets. IE the wall outlets, entertainment center, microwave and in some cases the Refer. these circuits are protected by the 30 amp built-in fuse on the inverter

When the outside power source is remove (shore power or generator) the inverter then powers the above circulates from the reserve power of the batteries and converts the battery power to AC. none of the power is directed back to the breaker box

I had a freedom 20 in my boat 25 years ago and now have the 2000. basically the same thing.
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