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Old 01-02-2012, 05:22 PM   #15
DKO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirdbus

DKO,
I do not know what you mean. In all metal braided hoses, the metal braid is an external shield to the rubber/fabric/liner assembly. It shields from external damage and controls/limits swelling in the event of a casement failure. Some hoses use PTFE or Teflon liners. They are used in motive and food service applications, some with working pressures in the thousands of pounds, much higher than the working or maximum pressure of a brake air line system on a coach. I would determine the dash size of the lines and repair them as long as the rest of the hoses are in good condition. Or, unbolt them, take them to a supply house that builds hoses, and have replacements made while you wait. Your coach, your hoses, your call
All good information but as I said in my original post I do not have the option of removing this hose right now. That would make it too easy and I wouldn't need you guys. Lol

I need to know if I can splice this particular hose which is Teflon lined right there in place.

Thanks for helping me.

DKO
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Canter
High pressure teflon lined hoses have to have the fittings swedged on. You cannot use just a push in AN fitting that you tighten with a nut like with regular rubber lined steel braided hoses. The teflon lining does not allow the standard push on fittings to grip under high pressure. Not sure about the your coach and your call. I am sure that there is a federal/DOT standard for air lines on a vehicle with airbrakes and that will also say that they require a specific type of connector. It might even specify that it has to be a one piece hose with zero splices in it and that is why it is the way it is on your bus. There should be somebody around that fixes airbrake systems on trucks that you can get to advise you.
Exactly. Thanks so much.

Places should be open tomorrow so I will begin checking then.

DKO
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:47 PM   #17
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Mike,
With all due respect, I ask again that you please get your facts straight before you respond to one of my posts.
Subpart B - Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards

571.106 Standard No. 106; Brake hoses.
S4. Definitions.
Brake hose assembly means a brake hose, with or without armor, equipped with end fittings for use in a brake system, but does not include an air or vacuum assembly prepared by the owner or operator of a used vehicle, by his employee, or by a repair facility, for installation in that used vehicle.

His coach, and it is his call on how to address this. ( Otherwise he could not have affected a temporary repair, and would have to tow the vehicle, or did you just miss that part of this?)
And it could be swedged in place, or as I posted, taken to a shop to get that done. I think he mentioned the shielded lines were for a heat proximity issue, most air lines on most vehicles are thin-walled nylon due to the relatively low operating pressure of the system. Thank you.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:54 PM   #18
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I am surprised your not being able to find a hyd shop to splice/cut out the hole and put in a new fitting then add in an union and then add a new fittting to the other end.
its a piece of cake
I made up lines for over 16 years, just need the correct swedging tool
and they do make then portable and easy to use, they are not cheap. but any shop worth its salt would have one
or at the very least have the shop equipment available to do the repair in their bay
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Old 01-02-2012, 10:22 PM   #19
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Freebirdbus, I don't know what your problem is with me but I sure wish you would take it somewhere else and not on this forum either address me privately via a PM or just keep it to yourself but please do us all a favor and keep it off this forum. We all try and get along on this forum. I was not responding to your post at all. I was addressing DKO posts.

My facts are correct on what I stated to DKO. Since you quoted the Standard I don't believe you read the whole Standard. Since you bought it up we are NOT talking about a leak in the thin walled 1/4 or 5/16" plastic air lines in the brake system itself. This steel braided teflon lined hose comes off the air compressor which is very different from the thin walled plastic hoses used further down on the air brake system. Sorry but again your statement confuses me.

I read all the instruction you referenced which specifies the type of ends that have to be used on the steel braided hose. Read further down on air brakes where it states they have to be swedged or crimped on. Again I don't understand your statement to me or even why you even said it..
Here is the whole Standard if anyone is interested.
*571.106***Standard No. 106; Brake hoses. :: PART 571--FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS :: CHAPTER V--NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION :: Title 49 - Transportation :: Code of Federal Regulations :: R
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerboatr
I am surprised your not being able to find a hyd shop to splice/cut out the hole and put in a new fitting then add in an union and then add a new fittting to the other end.
its a piece of cake
I made up lines for over 16 years, just need the correct swedging tool
and they do make then portable and easy to use, they are not cheap. but any shop worth its salt would have one
or at the very least have the shop equipment available to do the repair in their bay
Actually I hadn't inquired at any hydraulic shops yet. That was just mentioned Monday and most places were closed today. I'm going to check in the morning.

Thanks to all of you for your help. Keep the ideas coming. I'll let you know what I find out.

DKO
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:12 AM   #21
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Mike,
I can understand your confusion if you are not familiar with this or have not read it or understand it. That standard applies to OEM type manufacturing, hence the quoted exception "
but does not include an air or vacuum assembly prepared by the owner or operator of a used vehicle, by his employee, or by a repair facility, for installation in that used vehicle. " I posted that fact to help eliminate any confusion.
My response was to offer help to a fellow RV'er, with facts, not guesses
and speculation, such as your " It might even specify". Perhaps you should consider that.
You publicly asked "
Not sure about the your coach and your call. I am sure that there is a federal/DOT standard " and I publicly responded, please get your facts straight and get over it.
Thank you.
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirdbus View Post
Mike,
I can understand your confusion if you are not familiar with this or have not read it or understand it. That standard applies to OEM type manufacturing, hence the quoted exception "
but does not include an air or vacuum assembly prepared by the owner or operator of a used vehicle, by his employee, or by a repair facility, for installation in that used vehicle. " I posted that fact to help eliminate any confusion.
My response was to offer help to a fellow RV'er, with facts, not guesses
and speculation, such as your " It might even specify". Perhaps you should consider that.
You publicly asked "
Not sure about the your coach and your call. I am sure that there is a federal/DOT standard " and I publicly responded, please get your facts straight and get over it.
Thank you.
It is no big deal. You both are trying to help and I sincerely appreciate your knowledge and effort.

Called Prevost this morning and they said 4-6 hours labor to remove and replace plus the cost of the hose itself. The routing and clamps are a bear to get to and remove. It would be nearly $1000 to replace it there.

DKO
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:37 AM   #23
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DKO,
Try calling a (farm)tractor repair company. They may be able to hook you up with a mobile technician with the swedge tool to repair that hose in place, where the coach is sitting. Some larger "old school" hardware stores or an equipment rental place may even have the tools available to rent to repair it yourself. Where are you located?
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:41 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirdbus View Post
DKO,
Try calling a (farm)tractor repair company. They may be able to hook you up with a mobile technician with the swedge tool to repair that hose in place, where the coach is sitting. Some larger "old school" hardware stores or an equipment rental place may even have the tools available to rent to repair it yourself. Where are you located?
I am in Blair, Oklahoma for the next two weeks. It is about an hour west of Lawton. I am planning to go through OKC and Tulsa when I leave here headed to the other side of Joplin, Missouri.

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Old 01-11-2012, 02:16 PM   #25
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More Information and ???

Bob (robertglines1) sent me a piece of the proper hose, a reusable fittng and a coupling. Most of the people I talked to before had never seen the hose so having a length of it and a fitting really helped. I made the rounds today in the communities where I am located this week and thought I would run some of it by you all.

After chasing leads all over town and meeting some fine and helpful folks I finally made it to the guy everybody recommended. He knew exactly what I had in my hand when I walked in and knew that it came from my compressor. He didn't handle the hose or fittings but knew where to send me.

He sent me to a rental place that had hose, fittings and the knowledge to go with it but everything he handled was smaller than my hose. He sent me to the number one diesel mechanic in the area. I showed him everything and told him Bob's idea of coming off he compressor with a longer piece of pipe and connecting to the reusable fitting that Bob sent to me. He liked that idea but he wants to use black pipe. He says the fitttings on the compressor are standard 1/2 inch pipe thread and he thought black pipe would be best. His mobile guy is unavailable but if I can get it in Friday he can fix it.

Any thoughts? I reminded him that once he cut that hose I am dead in the water until it is fixed and he said it would be no problem to fix. I want to be sure so I am bringing it back to you guys.

Should I allow him to do that?

Should I wait until I get to OKC, Tulsa or Joplin and get some one else to do it?

Another opton is to find another re-usable fitting and put it on the short piece of hose coming out of the compressor and couple them together. ??

Any other options?

I posted a couple of pictures below...

DKO

This picture rotated when I brought it over but you can see the elbow coming out of the compressor and then connecting with the hose. The leak is 4-6 inches down the hose.



The hose, reusable fitting and coupling that Bob sent to me...

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Old 01-11-2012, 04:05 PM   #26
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Black pipe

DKO, I would try to keep any lengths of pipe to a minimum, the vibration and leverage will place a larger load on the compressor body where it threads in if they are longer than what you have now. Try to not trade one problem now for a bigger one a little later. Can he 'mirror' the ninety degree fitting there now with black pipe, and perhaps support it where the hose will start with a short bracket to the the compressor body or the compressor mount? I hope the emails that I sent were helpful. Good luck!
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:15 PM   #27
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Very Helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirdbus View Post
DKO, I would try to keep any lengths of pipe to a minimum, the vibration and leverage will place a larger load on the compressor body where it threads in if they are longer than what you have now. Try to not trade one problem now for a bigger one a little later. Can he 'mirror' the ninety degree fitting there now with black pipe, and perhaps support it where the hose will start with a short bracket to the the compressor body or the compressor mount? I hope the emails that I sent were helpful. Good luck!
Yes, thanks. You and so many others have been very helpful. I will let you know how it turns out.

DKO
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:17 PM   #28
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Fixed-Thanks

I took the BoggsMobile to Altus, Oklahoma (About 15 miles from where I am) today and had the air line fixed.



The plan was to use the reusable fitting that robertglines1 (From BCM & Prevost Community) sent and either use a union and another reusable fitting to couple where the hole was OR come out of the compressor with a longer pipe and connect to it. Turns out he did neither. The air line was previously was routed under and hard against two ground wires and moving it above them gave us plenty of slack as Bob and others thought it would.

By doing that and using an Aeroquip reusable fitting the mechanic was able to hook directily to the elbow coming out of the compressor. The female end on the Aeroquip fitting screwed directly on the to existing fitting. It was perfect.



The old fitting. The hole where the new fitting was installed is about 4-6 inches from this fitting.



New fitting hooked to the compressor...



The air line was routed under these two ground cables and you can see where it rubbed. The "stuff" you can see is actually from the plastic wrapping around the ground cables and the air line appears to be in good shape. I may wrap some of the air line with rubber heater hose in places where it comes any where near other lines and hoses.



While this fixed my air leak I believe I may have other leaks. Tomorrow is a travel day so next week if it is not too cold in Missouri I will investigate and perhaps be back with more questions.

Thank you all so much. You guys were so helpful. robertglines1 went way beyond the call of duty and to you sir I give double honor! Thank you very, very much.

God bless,

DKO
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