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Old 06-05-2014, 03:55 PM   #1
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New batteries or not on 2015 coach

During my PDI coach batteries were dead after a 2 day transport.

Question 1: should they be dead after being on the highway for 1 days.

Question 2: should I have the dealer give me new batts of the start instead of recharging dead batteries.

Can't believe came out of factory with 2 dead coach batteries.
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Old 06-05-2014, 03:58 PM   #2
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I would want new batteries if they had gone flat.

The dealer should have checked them, then you would have never known.
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Old 06-05-2014, 04:07 PM   #3
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If you can check the date of manufacturer. Who knows what might have drained the battery during transport. Maybe the dealer left a light on or any number of other things. No it shouldn't have happened but it did. Just because they are dead now does not mean that they are defective.

I would insist that the dealer to charge them first then have them load tested. I'd also ask to watch them perform the load test. If they refuse to allow you to watch the testing process then I'd insist that they replace them. They should not be afraid of finding a defective battery and if they did then you'd get a new one.

Load testing uses a carbon pile rheostat that will create a heavy 150 or so AMP drain for 15 seconds. If the battery voltage is still above 10-volts at the end of 15 seconds then they are good. If it drops below 9-6 volts then they can't sustain a load while maintaining sufficient voltage pressure and should be replaced.

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Old 06-05-2014, 06:09 PM   #4
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Thank you, they are doing the testing tomorrow. I will pass by for testing/results. My concern is if they are went bad (dual bat) already and I haven't even paid for it, what should I expect in the future.

Again thanks for the replies
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:19 AM   #5
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We shouldn't say, "Went bad" since we don't really know what drained the batteries. As stated. If the batteries accept a charge, that is test #1. and will pass a load test, that is test #2, then they are still good. The load test is a dynamic test that assure that the battery can deliver a large amount of current draw while still maintaining a high (10-volts) of electrical pressure.

It's like opening the end of a fire hose to see if the water pump (your battery's) can deliver a great volume of water (current or amperage) and still send it a long ways with sufficient pressure (voltage).

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Old 06-06-2014, 09:26 AM   #6
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More than the batteries is why they went flat. You said coach batteries so I assume house and not start. There could be a problem with the house as simple as lights left on or maybe more. Even if the batteries test good find that cause, even if you need to leave the new coach at the dealer for an over night to see if there is more to the dead batteries.

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Old 06-06-2014, 05:57 PM   #7
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If a 2 day transport killed the batteries something is wrong.. IT may have been operator error on the part of the transport driver Or it may be a problem with the RV's power system, specifically the isolator system.

Or it could be bad batteries.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:59 PM   #8
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Passing a 150 amp load for 15 seconds does NOT mean that batteries are good.

It does indicate they are not toast.

Not passing the test indicates toast.

Been dealing with batteries for many years and have had to deal with vendorscand servicers using short load testing, Midtronics impeadance and Alber testing and all claim their test can indicate good battery and they are wrong and I proved them wrong while they were performing demonstrations for sale.

They can indicate a bad battery sometimes but only if conditions are perfect.

To correctly use them and have decent results requires many tests starting from new to see trending.

Single test on a not toast battery is likely to pass where the person performing the test will claim good and send you on your way.

Only one way to properly test a battery as good is to first make sure it is fully charged then to apply a controlled load and measure the time required to hit 1.75 Volts per cell then using the manufacturer data sheet that indicates the hr rating for the load applied you determine if the battery maintained a voltage above 1.75 vpc for a period longer than the rating.

If you have a 100 ahr battery @10 hr then a fully charged battery will maintain a voltage above 1.75 VPC for 10 hours with a 10 amp load.

The load needs to be constant but headlight can work.

150 to 500 pile loads that most cat get are only suitable for seconds and minutes are needed as well as constant current.

Now long lecture is over what to do...

Have your dealer fully check the full electrical system to be sure charging system is correct. (Please search here for mire instructiins regarding that...a weeks worth if reading)

Have the dealer measure charging voltage and current.

Then have them measure the sitting current with things off to be sure nothing on that should not be.

Lastly if they can measure higher amp loads then figure out how to load your batteries.

Say dealer can measure 100 amps.

Turn on your inverter then start turning on things 120 volt items until you get 30 to 50 amps load then write these down.

Now you can look up the data sheet for your batteries and see how long it should go.

Soak your batteries a couple days and check the voltage to make sure fully charged.

Unplug shore line and turn on the items on your list and start the clock.

If it runs short then batteries are degraded but being new they should pass as new.

If runs long then they are good.

Being new it should run a bit long but the amperage rises as voltage falls so a new battery will run just a bit long...great battery quite a bit long.

Degraded battery will be short.

You will need to have your math and datasheet to explain your test to the dealer if it fails but you should be fine if you show that the battery shoukd have ran 60 minutes and failed at 20.

Have the batteries fully charged and repeat test at dealer if needed.
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:33 PM   #9
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TQ60,
I'm always open to learning and your post does provide a great deal of learning and for that I thank you.
My original idea (based on car batteries) of the load test does indicate one thing. The battery can deliver a heavy load (starter) for 15 seconds which is the amount of time needed to crank a starter motor under bad circumstances to perhaps get the engine started. Usually that test if failed indicates one thing. The battery is not charged. If the battery had gone through a good charge situation then one can assume that it can't hold a charge long enough to properly crank the engine to get it started.
A coach battery which drains current usually a lot slower than a cranking motor would have to be checked differently as you indicated.
I don't know of to many places that will take the time to properly test a battery for slow steady drains over several minutes or hours. Usually a quick check and a recharge or replace the battery.
The testing procedure you listed is great and will tell a lot abut the batteries ability to deliver current under good testing circumstances (real world usage). I just don't know how many shops will do that.

TeJay
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:04 PM   #10
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None will do that.

Safe to say I have been dealing with this for many years.

The load test with as much as 500 amps certernly will weed out bad batteries in a hurry.

Degraded batteries not so much unless you have more thst one as they both should do same.

If both same then both coukd be any condition but if one way worse than rge other then it is likely bad.

If it is replsced it can be compared to other.

Most reputable dealers will listen to your procedure.

If you had them provide the amp measurements then it is easy to show them your notes and usually that works.

If not then you can insist they repeat is as it requires no equipment other thsn a watch.

Most important is good solid dsts with accurate notes and measurements.

Most of the time they will learn from you.

I developed a process to losd test just using the float charge and it was real good at identifying cells that needed attention but it requires very controlled testing which yiu cannot do on a rv.

You could do similar once you have known good batteries you fully charge then apply voltmeter to a good test point and turn on inverter snd a handfull of specific repeatsble high loads and measure the time to reach a specific voltage.

Record the exact devices and process to it can be repeated exactly.

Record the voltage with digital voltmeter and time as accurate as possible.

Over time the time will shorten...this is age degradation and is expected but the amount varies.

When a battery tanks the diffetence will be great.

Having that log satisfies most need for planned maintenance and gives good indication of fault for warranty.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:30 AM   #11
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It would be easier to answer how and what you have for a charging system for you batteries if we new what coach MFG you have in your signature or profile.
That information can be place in the CP location of your USER CP top left of first thread.
Here is a link that may help with some of your coach info needed to relate to your question.
If they can not recharge your batteries to hold a full charge and stay there after using your coach on shore power or driving you coach than I would insist on new batteries.
If this coach was on dealer lot over winter the batteries may have froze.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:47 PM   #12
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Profile Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by 007";2086016]It would be easier to answer how and what you have for a charging system for you batteries if we new what coach MFG you have in your signature or profile.
That information can be place in the CP location of your USER CP top left of first thread.
[B][URL="http://www.irv2.com/forums/f54/technical-info-links-28855.html
Here is a link[/URL][/B] that may help with some of your coach info needed to relate to your question.
If they can not recharge your batteries to hold a full charge and stay there after using your coach on shore power or driving you coach than I would insist on new batteries.
If this coach was on dealer lot over winter the batteries may have froze.
Thanks, for the replies. Great topic of understanding for me.

As for the profile info or lack thereof, I really didn't officially own one at the time of the OP so I never put it on. Since that time, I have dove in the community. I am the owner of a 25 ft. Class A TMC Vegas as of this past weekend. I will now put the info on profile.

UPDATE: I purchased the coach after the dealer demonstated that the batteries were fully charged. The coach monitor also was showing fully charged. They did the shorter version of the test mentioned in previous post. So I don't know if it will pass the test of time, time and warranty in full effect.

BTW, this forum is the best forum on the planet. I have been on car forums but none of them have the experience and expertise as shown here. I'm going to guess that the members here are the been there done that crowd.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:09 PM   #13
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OP , batteries were good. A trimbetta (I think thats how it's spelled) was replaced and everything works as advertised on batt alone. Happy now. I have been taking it on short trips and enjoying it now. Thanks for all the help, again love this RV community.
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