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Old 10-28-2008, 10:01 AM   #1
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I seem to invite weird stuff my way. Maybe it's because I'm too close to Austin where their motto is, "Keep Austin Weird."

Last week I had two new Michelen 235/80R22.5 XRV tires put on my Discovery motor home ... one each on the inside duals since the outside duals were pretty new.

That was done about 250 miles from where I'm now parked. This past weekend, I was checking the air pressure in all four tires when I noticed the Schrader valve extender on the curb side inner dual was loose. Thinking it hadn't been put on properly by the tire shop, I tried to tighten it up and it came off in my hand.

Further inspection showed me the wheel's metal tire valve had broken right at the base of the threads where the extender screwed on and the tire was loose on the wheel. I'm thinking the kid mounting the tires hit it with the outside Alcoa wheel or maybe even broke it before it went on my motor home.

Here's the real question: If, indeed, that tire had no air for the entire 250 miles, does anyone think there's a chance this brand new tire can still be used? Just looking at what I can see behind my outside dual, the tire seems OK with no wire sticking out of the inner rim area. But what about hidden damage caused by the tire just rotating around the wheel?

This is a national truck tire chain that did the work and they're sending a truck out tomorrow from Austin to pull the outer dual and replace the broken tire valve on the inside wheel. I'll know more about the shape of the tire once the service man pulls the outer dual.

I've never run a new tire on duals with no air in one of them. The few I've had go South on me were big time blowouts with not much left of the tire that blew.

So ... that's why I'm asking. Any thoughts???
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:01 AM   #2
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I seem to invite weird stuff my way. Maybe it's because I'm too close to Austin where their motto is, "Keep Austin Weird."

Last week I had two new Michelen 235/80R22.5 XRV tires put on my Discovery motor home ... one each on the inside duals since the outside duals were pretty new.

That was done about 250 miles from where I'm now parked. This past weekend, I was checking the air pressure in all four tires when I noticed the Schrader valve extender on the curb side inner dual was loose. Thinking it hadn't been put on properly by the tire shop, I tried to tighten it up and it came off in my hand.

Further inspection showed me the wheel's metal tire valve had broken right at the base of the threads where the extender screwed on and the tire was loose on the wheel. I'm thinking the kid mounting the tires hit it with the outside Alcoa wheel or maybe even broke it before it went on my motor home.

Here's the real question: If, indeed, that tire had no air for the entire 250 miles, does anyone think there's a chance this brand new tire can still be used? Just looking at what I can see behind my outside dual, the tire seems OK with no wire sticking out of the inner rim area. But what about hidden damage caused by the tire just rotating around the wheel?

This is a national truck tire chain that did the work and they're sending a truck out tomorrow from Austin to pull the outer dual and replace the broken tire valve on the inside wheel. I'll know more about the shape of the tire once the service man pulls the outer dual.

I've never run a new tire on duals with no air in one of them. The few I've had go South on me were big time blowouts with not much left of the tire that blew.

So ... that's why I'm asking. Any thoughts???
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:10 PM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Schrader valve extender </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Should have single piece metal valve stems so you don't have to deal with an extender ...mine came from the factory with long stems to reach through the wheels to the outside.

About two weeks after driving our new coach over 1,700 miles from Texas to Virginia I found an inside dual had no air due to the valve stem being cracked. The tire ribs had slightly feathered edges, so I suspected it made much or all of that trip with no air. That tire was replaced about two years ago at apx 30k miles and four years old when one rib "collapsed" in a number of places around the entire circumference of the tire.

TWO POSSIBLE DIFFERENCES from yours: the tire was not loose on the wheel; and when the tire had no air the motorhome was carrying nothing except us and a couple of suitcases so was nowhere near normal CCC. Why your tire was "loose" on the wheel (I presume you mean it was not seated on the rim) would make me wonder...

One thought: If you were running close to maximum weight, the tire that did have air in it may have been damaged as much or MORE than the tire without air due to being overloaded.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:00 PM   #4
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Hi Lyjo and welcome to the forums.
I took delivery of my '09 Winny on August 21.I did a couple of short trips,about 200 miles round trip,each,with the coach going back to the dealer for some little stuff.I then went from Phila,Pa to Myrtle Beach for the Workhorse rally.I then left Myrtle to go to Daytona Fl,to attend Biketoberfest.Just before Santee SC,almost to Ga on Rout 95,A trucker signaled me that I had a tire problem.It seems the valve extender on the inner drivers side had been rubbing somthing and it has a hole in it.I was traviling pretty heavy,and the tire was making contact with the road,because the edges,inside and outside, are like scalloed all around.I have know idea how long it was flat.It was good
when I left Philly,pre-trip check,but I did about 1100 miles between home and Santee,SC.
The tire was broken loose from the bead of the rim when the road service guy took the wheels off the coach.I have no idea when the tire went flat.The scallopes on the tire are about like about 3/4 inch all around the tire,and most of the tread on the outer edges is gone.All the tread in the center 80% of the tire is still like new.
So look at it closly on your coach!
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:55 PM   #5
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Your tire could be ruined or it could be OK. You won't know until the tire man pulls it off, dismounts it and inspects it. If the responding tire service is TDS on East Chapman in Austin, I would feel comfortable with their evaluation. I speak from over five years of excellent service experience with Red Brosig, the man who was the manager there several years ago.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:18 PM   #6
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Please, folks. Bite the bullet and get a tire monitoring system. It WILL pay for itself at some time, and may save your life.

Signed: Paranoid in Little Rock.
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:14 AM   #7
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Norm, you gotta know that exact thought is on my mind and has been for several years.

I really appreciate the other feedback.

I'm presuming the tire will have to come completely off the wheel in order for the service man to perform R&R on the tire valve.

But based on what I read above, I'll make sure that happens even if he doesn't plan on it. Based on the inspection, I'll determine whether I'll stay with this tire with only 200 miles on it or carefully drive on it and the outer dual back to the original shop where I believe the problem started and deal with them regarding a replacement.

They're already claiming "no fault" so no doubt that will be an interesting situation if indeed, I need another tire.

BTW, my out-the-door price for both new XRVs was $726.63. That seems a bit high for Michelen 235/80R22.5 XRV tires but I haven't purchased any for about four years. I figure they probably are that much now. The listed price per tire on the invoice before additions was $276.84.

But the price is neither here nor there. Again, I appreciate the feedback on running a dual tire with no air in it. At least I have a little hope. The service man is due in a couple hours from Austin. I'll come back and let you know what things look like once we get the tire off.
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:20 AM   #8
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If it's any consolation,I just replaced all 6 on the Vectra 275/75x22.5 Michelin XTA2 Energy . . $3100, plus tax. Sounds like you were right in there.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:57 AM   #9
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The service man came out yesterday and pulled the wheel with the flat brand new tire on it.

Close inspection showed no apparent damage and it took 90-pounds of air with no problem.

However, the service man looked at the other tire making up the dual set and said it obviously underwent a lot of stress by taking the load of both tires. He felt the company should replace that tire.

When he pulled the inner dual off, it was clear that the valve stem that broke was old and had been there for thousands and thousands of miles. My invoice for the new tire that ran flat showed a charge for a new valve stem for that tire.

Those are the facts. My fear now is that the next trip may result in failure from the other relatively new tire on that set of duals because it took the whole load for a couple hundred miles.

Needless to say, I'm conferring with my attorney to see if we want to pursue this situation. I'm thinking of offering to purchase one more tire from this company, then let them give me one to replace the stressed one and also give me all associated installation costs. Sounds fair to me.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:32 PM   #10
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Lyjo, are you saying they put a new tire and a used tire on the same dual?
We were always told to never put a new and old tire on the same dual. The new tire will be slightly larger than the old tire and will carry more of the load.
Just what I was taught before my retirement from the Tire Manufacturing Industry.
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Old 10-31-2008, 08:52 AM   #11
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Jay, that's a good point. That setup was done at my request because the existing tire was new enough that there was no measurable difference between the two tires. We actually stood them up against each other on a flat surface and checked it out.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:47 AM   #12
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Lyjo, Sounds like you had the situation under control

I just wanted to make clarify to readers that it is not normally a good idea to mix new and old tires on the same dual.
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Old 11-04-2008, 12:47 PM   #13
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As promised, here is the result of this particular tire/valve story:

The tire company offered to provide me with one tire at their invoice cost and another tire at one-half their invoice cost. They also offered to install these for free.

It's not exactly what I asked for but at least I end up with four brand new tires on the back end of my Discovery at a significant savings.

I'm happy ... and thanks to those of you who offered information. I appreciate it.
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