Oil

[Murf2u]

Originally Posted by 94-Newmar

Murf2u, there is nothing inherently wrong with synthetics - I have nothing against them provided those who use it understand you still need to change it just as regularly as traditional blends.

I guess it depends on the engine you have and who's opinion you want to rely on, Cummins I know say same interval as Dino oil, however both Cat & Detroit say differently.

From the Cat website; "*Caterpillar now offers full synthetic diesel engine oil. This premium-priced lubricant is designed to achieve longer oil change intervals.".

And from a Government website "Mack Truck has recently approved 25,000 mile crankcase drain intervals, up from 15,000 and 20,000 mile intervals formerly recommended. These increased intervals are effective for most 1990 and later model vehicles used under on-highway conditions. These are a part of the "new breed," lower emission engines currently in production. Other manufacturers, Detroit Diesel, Cummins, and Caterpillar, have also increased their recommended drain intervals. These changes are based on using new API CF4 rated oil." and "Synthetic oils are made by rearranging carbon and hydrogen atoms into new molecules. These molecules are more stable, resist oxidation at higher temperatures, and are less volatile than paraffin based oils. Because they are more stable, they resist reaction by combustion gases and become less contaminated over time. Oil itself does not "wear out" but becomes chemically contaminated. Over time, additives become depleted and acid levels rise. Oxidation and volatile boil-off are the primary reasons for changing oil. Oil properly filtered, chemically stable, and with the proper additives is serviceable.".

5,000 mile oil change intervals are only necessary with old poorly maintained equipment, although I do agree, it IS cheap insurance in something as low mile per year a vehicle as a motorhome.

[CaptBill]

Originally Posted by jamesrxx951

I personally stay away from Amsoil. One of the biggest reasons is their 2 stroke oils. I know motorhomes use 4 stroke but if they don't work well in 2 strokes im not putting it in my really expensive stuff. Many manufactures that make the 2 stroke engines I use (for hobby/completion use) do not recommend Amsoil any more. In fact one manufacture specifically states no Amsoil or warranty will be voided. I just stick with Ford branded oil or Mobil 1. Cannot go wrong with Mobil 1. Many manufactures that use full syn in their cars use Mobil 1. Just my $.02.

James, would you kindly provide a link to the manufacturer's website that made this statement? I have been using Amsoil in 2 stroke Yamaha's and Mercury's for many years. Full synthetic oil readily blends with gasoline, and provides such superior lubrication to carbon-based oils, that the mix ratio is often 100:1 instead of 50:1, although you can certainly stay with normal ratios, or continue to use the engine's automatic oil injection as always.

Anyone who has actually researched it, I think will find out that full synthetics will not form carbon (they cannot, due to the synthetic base stock), so stuck carboned rings, worn rings, and carboned valves and seats are of no concern. Synthetic has superior lubricity, and has more stable viscosity of a wide temperature range, and more.

Any number of independent 3rd party labrotories have done the work; tested and published the results of most brands of synthetic and conventional oils. Amsoil is consistently is at or near the top, including the 4-ball wear test; a measure of the ability of the oil to do what it's there to do.

And no, I am not an Amsoil dealer; do not re-sell their products. I am a satisfied user, in everything I have owned for 30 years, that uses motor oil; my cars, trucks, Jeep, marine 2 and 4 stroke and diesel engines, and Cat 330 in my motorhome. When I change the oil, I still have had the oil analysis done, just to see the health of the engine, and if anything has changed. Reports always have come back "suitable for continued use".

Please share with us the source of your information.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by CaptBill

James, would you kindly provide a link to the manufacturer's website that made this statement? I have been using Amsoil in 2 stroke Yamaha's and Mercury's for many years. Full synthetic oil readily blends with gasoline, and provides such superior lubrication to carbon-based oils, that the mix ratio is often 100:1 instead of 50:1, although you can certainly stay with normal ratios, or continue to use the engine's automatic oil injection as always.

Anyone who has actually researched it, I think will find out that full synthetics will not form carbon (they cannot, due to the synthetic base stock), so stuck carboned rings, worn rings, and carboned valves and seats are of no concern. Synthetic has superior lubricity, and has more stable viscosity of a wide temperature range, and more.

Any number of independent 3rd party labrotories have done the work; tested and published the results of most brands of synthetic and conventional oils. Amsoil is consistently is at or near the top, including the 4-ball wear test; a measure of the ability of the oil to do what it's there to do.

And no, I am not an Amsoil dealer; do not re-sell their products. I am a satisfied user, in everything I have owned for 30 years, that uses motor oil; my cars, trucks, Jeep, marine 2 and 4 stroke and diesel engines, and Cat 330 in my motorhome. When I change the oil, I still have had the oil analysis done, just to see the health of the engine, and if anything has changed. Reports always have come back "suitable for continued use".

Please share with us the source of your information.

Fuel
This engine requires a mix of 20:1 gas to oil
lubricant ratio for break-in and a mix of 32:1
gas/oil ratio for normal operation in order to
last a long time.
The needle bearing at the bottom end of the
conrod depends upon this lube ratio to operate
properly.
Do not go higher than a 20:1 gas/oil ratio
for the first gallon of fuel. After this you may
decrease the oil content to a 32:1 gas/oil ratio
if desired. Do not go higher than a 32:1 gas/
oil ratio or the warranty on your engine will be
voided.
To properly mix the fuel, for a mix of 20:1 gas
to oil, add 6.75 oz of good quality 2-stroke
oil to one gallon (or 53 mL of oil to one liter)
of 87–93 octane fuel. (EVOX1001Q Evolution
2-stroke oil is recommended) We prefer to
add the oil first to our fuel container and to
add the gasoline second. This helps to ensure
a good mixture of the oil with the fuel at the
outset.
We have tested our own Evolution 2-stroke oil,
Valvoline, Shell, RedLine and Husqvarna oils.
Other quality 2-stroke oils should work as
well. Do not use Amsoil synthetic oil in

any form.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/EVOE20GX-Manual_EN.pdf

Amsoil is notorious for causing heavy and hard carbon deposits in these engines. It results in stuck rings. I had to use a wire wheel to remove the carbon off these pistons.


I also play on jetski forums every now and then and Amsoil is also the most controversial oil. Way to many engine failures that seem oil related to even think about using it.

[HicksRA]

I wouldn't put Amsoil in my lawnmower.

[wa8yxm]

Long Long time ago, (Many years) the ORIGINAL Amisol formula had serious problems.. They identified those problems and fixed them.

You may have heard scare stories such as "Once you switch you can never switch back" or "It will eat your _____" or such.. This all applies to that original Amisol formula, Which is no longer made... by anyone.

However, that said. i do not think it is as good as THEY think it is.. You may wish to change oil more frequently.

Mobile 1 (Last I knew) Is/was a true synthetic,, Likewise Amisol.. Most others are "Synthetic" (note quotes) highly refined dino oil. They exhibit far better properties than "Regular" but are non the less dino oil.

Source; Shell Oil. They make a "Synthetic" themselves.

[CaptBill]

Well James, your photos and that statement by "Horizon hobbies " doesn't amount to a thing. Whoever they are (maybe even former disgruntled Amsoil employee), they are not a major engine manufacturer.

It doesn't matter to me what oil you, or anyone else uses, but you're wrong about Amsoil. It is a true full synthetic, and will not carbon an engine. I say the carbon in those pics are not caused by Amsoil. I have personally seen engines torn down that were run on nothing but Amsoil, and the pistons, rings and valves looked brand new.

It's your engine, and your money, so buy whatever you like.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by CaptBill

Well James, your photos and that statement by "Horizon hobbies " doesn't amount to a thing. Whoever they are (maybe even former disgruntled Amsoil employee), they are not a major engine manufacturer.

It doesn't matter to me what oil you, or anyone else uses, but you're wrong about Amsoil. It is a true full synthetic, and will not carbon an engine. I say the carbon in those pics are not caused by Amsoil. I have personally seen engines torn down that were run on nothing but Amsoil, and the pistons, rings and valves looked brand new.

It's your engine, and your money, so buy whatever you like.

WOW, rather defensive for some odd reason. These engines are used for Hobby and for UAV use. This company has no ties with any oil manufacture but only has the interest to keep their products running for customers and is a global company. Several UAV engine manufactures also recommend not to use this oil but stick with the ones that were listed. Companies that also test different oils for these air planes also showed higher engine failures with Amsoil due to the high heat these engines undergo. There are a lot better oils out there but if you like Amsoil then that is fine with me, but don't have to get so touchy over it. Might need to relax a little.

By the way, those pics were caused by Amsoil. There are many others out there with the same results. I switched oil brand and no longer does the pistons look like that. Same setups. Others did not clean the pistons and only switched oil brand to a quality oil. Over time, the thick heavy carbon cleaned out to a normal light carbon build up on the piston top.

[CaptBill]

This is from one of those engine forums you're talking about:

Quote: Originally Posted by*chatoriveraDoes anyone is using Evolution two stroke synthetic oil?*http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...D=ZEN20001What are your experiences with it, I have a Evolution 26 GT gas engine and I receive some bottles of this oil, it is the same as the zenoah oil that Horizon hobby sell, the bottles says it contain special addittive, ZX-7, what do you think about this oil in particular, should I use it?

Thanks.J. Rivera.

Don't quite believe in a blended product because it will leave deposits in the engine. There are many manufactures that claim to be synthetic, but are not. The claim to fame for synthetics is how "slippery" or how much friction is reduced by their product. I run Amsoil in my SPE26 and DA50.Here's a link that may provide a little more info*http://www.rcplanetips.net/amsoil.htm*.Happy Landings!*"

End of quote.

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by CaptBill

This is from one of those engine forums you're talking about:

Quote: Originally Posted by*chatoriveraDoes anyone is using Evolution two stroke synthetic oil?*http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...D=ZEN20001What are your experiences with it, I have a Evolution 26 GT gas engine and I receive some bottles of this oil, it is the same as the zenoah oil that Horizon hobby sell, the bottles says it contain special addittive, ZX-7, what do you think about this oil in particular, should I use it?

Thanks.J. Rivera.

Don't quite believe in a blended product because it will leave deposits in the engine. There are many manufactures that claim to be synthetic, but are not. The claim to fame for synthetics is how "slippery" or how much friction is reduced by their product. I run Amsoil in my SPE26 and DA50.Here's a link that may provide a little more info*http://www.rcplanetips.net/amsoil.htm*.Happy Landings!*"

End of quote.

None of your links even work.

[jesilvas]

This is to cover oil in general.
Use an oil that meets or exceeds your engines requirements. If this is Amsoil, fine, use it. If you want to extend your OCIs, then do a UOA.
Learn how your engine uses your oil also. If it's an HEUI motor, then you had better watch your UOAs carefully.

[TexasTom]

I am not an expert but have done a lot of research. Not your typical Internet searching, but review of real engineering studies. (Yea, that degree come in handy sometimes).

There was a very interesting study by the army years ago. (Can't find it or would post) The conclusion, in simple terms is oil never wears out but gets contaminated. Yea, we can talk about acidic composition, dirt, the list is long.

The bottom line for me is synthetic.

[CaptBill]

Originally Posted by jamesrxx951

None of your links even work.

Sorry. they are not my links; they are in the quoted text from the forum that I found here:

Evolution 2 stroke synthetic oil, anyone using it? - FlyingGiants

[jamesrxx951]

Originally Posted by CaptBill

Sorry. they are not my links; they are in the quoted text from the forum that I found here:

Evolution 2 stroke synthetic oil, anyone using it? - FlyingGiants

There are many oil debates on that forum. A common theme is some use Amsoil with some success but most have switched over to a better oil that provide better protection. Just about all the engine manufacturers have been changing their manuals and leaving Amsoil out of the recommended list.

[CaptBill]

So we agree to disagree, as Amsoil is clearly a superior oil to Evolution, which, according to what I am reading, is not even a full synthetic. It is a blend, and therefore is the reason that at high engine temperatures, over time, will cause carbon deposits on pistons and rings. A full synthetic base stock, which Amsoil uses, will not do that.

It's been an Interesting debate, James, but for me; I'm going to leave it at that.