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Old 02-22-2008, 06:21 PM   #1
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Anyone know which motor home manufacturers, if any, are offering the new Onan Hybrid Quiet Diesel system? I am very interested in it, but haven't seen anyone offer it yet. Any ideas?
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:34 AM   #2
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I looked into this quite a bit in Janauary. Talked to Cummins at the Supershow. They said almost all manufactureres were going to use it.

They said Monaco had 8 units in production w/little problems.

However, when I talked to Newmar, they had put the introduction on hold because they couldn't get the bugs worked out. That also seems to be the case w/Tiffin and several others.

So unless Monaco continues to put some in production, I don't think it is available yet. Maybe on the '09 models. Although the head of sales & marketing from Newmar told me it won't be on the '09s.
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Old 02-23-2008, 04:43 AM   #3
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That's the same thing I heard and Tiffin will not be using it on the '09s yet either. Once the bugs get worked out I think it'll be a great system.

Note that the key word here is "system". The real benefits to this system is that it is configured as a system and everything works together.

Today's RVs have a "bunch of items" rather than a "system". Onan usually makes the genset, someone else makes the breaker panel, Xantrex probably makes the inverter, someone makes an auto gen start (if it even exists on that coach), while another party makes the automatic transfer switch. If you are lucky enough to have the Intellitec energy management system to shed loads when on a 30 amp shore power you have added yet another item to the equation. Plus, don't forget to add a Surge Guard or Progressive unit to protect from voltage fluctuauions or spikes. All of these items are great in themselves but they just don't talk to each other.

The beauty of the new Onan system is it's all integrated. EMS (load management) is done away with because the inverter will kick in to add amps if your shore power isn't adequate for those needs. It'll also determimne when to auto start the genset if loads get extreme or the batteries get low. Plus, if anything doesn't work, there's no finger pointing. Onan takes responsibility for the entire system. In the long run it'll be less problems for RVers and more benefits. At least, once they get the bugs worked out.
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:25 AM   #4
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This is the worst play on words that some one has come up with since the phrase "honest *****". Read what it says as the HYBRID means a second or third power source such as regenerative braking. Onan is simply tying to BS people into thinking they can produce power from nothing. It is nothing more than a very complicated power management system.
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
HYBRID means a second or third power source such as regenerative braking. Onan is simply tying to BS people into thinking they can produce power from nothing.
Taken from wikipedia...
A hybrid is the combination of two or more different things, aimed at achieving a particular objective or goal.
Hybrid
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:09 AM   #6
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I believe the Hybrid for this product is meant to reflect that the inverter will supplement the generator when needed. No existing set-up can do that now that I know about. One benefit of this is a smaller generator requirement for peak loads, thus quieter and less fuel consumption.

The second value proposition is the integrated system. Essentially, you set up the control panel once and you never worry about power. Just plug in when you can or let autogen start work.

This functionality can vitually be replicated now w/many different components and I believe it is more expensive.

Also, I believe the one neck, one noose if something goes wrong is a good thing. Cummins/Onan seem to stand behind their product pretty well.
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:09 PM   #7
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It makes a good read. If they can get the bugs worked out, I want it on my next "last coach". I like the ideas of smaller, quieter generators; lower fuel costs; and one neck to buy rope for.
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by JavaJelly:
I believe the Hybrid for this product is meant to reflect that the inverter will supplement the generator when needed. No existing set-up can do that now that I know about. One benefit of this is a smaller generator requirement for peak loads, thus quieter and less fuel consumption.

The second value proposition is the integrated system. Essentially, you set up the control panel once and you never worry about power. Just plug in when you can or let autogen start work.

This functionality can vitually be replicated now w/many different components and I believe it is more expensive.

Also, I believe the one neck, one noose if something goes wrong is a good thing. Cummins/Onan seem to stand behind their product pretty well.
Integrated component system may suit some peoples mindsets better but it is a basic hybred power system that puts all the generator power through the inverter and blends it with battery power and even cuts out the generator when there are non-peak loads.

Basic modes of operation for the 7500/10000 unit are:

1. Loads up to 2500 watts are powered by the batteries through the inverter with the generator auto starting to recharge the batteries via the Onan provided 140 watt charger.

2. Loads over 2500 watts and up to 7500 watts powered by the generator as the generator keeps the batteries topped off.

3. Loads over 7500 watts and up to 10000 watts powered by combining 7500 watts from the generator and up to 2500 watts from the batteries.

4. Brownout, blackout and surge protecton while on shore power.

Not any info on support for solar for maintaining the batteries which would make it more of a Hybred but that could be a feature that is still waiting in the wings.

It promises to be a nice integrated system that provdes One Stop Shopping and one point of contact for support. Time will tell if it lives up to the promise.

Brochure
http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/pdf/rv/hqdbrochure.pdf

Tech Specs
http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/pdf/s...ets/a-1502.pdf

HQD Page
http://www.cumminsonan.com/hqd/
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:22 AM   #9
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Neil,

Thanks for the explanation. It helps us non-tech type understand the basic process.
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:27 PM   #10
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I like Webster better "something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function"

In this case unless your or on shore power the generator produces all of the electric power. Some is use as it is produced and some depending on the load is stored in the battery bank. Therefore the electric power that is consumed when the inverter kicks in was produced by the generator. It is not a <span class="ev_code_RED">HYBRID</span> as two different types of components are not performing essentially the same function <span class="ev_code_BLUE">producing power</span> .

In Onan case one component is producing power as in the generator ( some would say converting carbon energy to electric energy), one is storing power as in the battery and the inverter is converting DC power to AC power.

Onan is clearly trying to make people think they are a <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Green Company</span> and I suggest they are not.


Quote:
Originally posted by SacsTC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">HYBRID means a second or third power source such as regenerative braking. Onan is simply tying to BS people into thinking they can produce power from nothing.
Taken from wikipedia...
A hybrid is the combination of two or more different things, aimed at achieving a particular objective or goal.
Hybrid </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:13 PM   #11
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Hybrid does not necessarily mean green. The auto industry has somehow convinced the public it does. Re-generative braking has been in golf carts for years and years but, they don't call them hybrids.

Onan hasn't claimed any green benefits that I know of in any of their marketing. It more convenience and peformance. Essentially set it and forget it.

Webster's definition is below. 3b is the definition that is brought up in this thread. The "hybrid" in this case is that electricity/power is produced by one (sometimes two) of three sources - generator, battery or shore. All perform the same function - powering the house in a coach. Two of the three also happen to re-charge the batteries.



Main Entry: hybrid
Pronunciation: \ˈhī-brəd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin hybrida
Date: 1601
1: an offspring of two animals or plants of different races, breeds, varieties, species, or genera
2: a person whose background is a blend of two diverse cultures or traditions
3 a: something heterogeneous in origin or composition : composite <hybrids of complementary DNA and RNA strands> <a hybrid of medieval and Renaissance styles> b: something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function
" hybrid adjective
" hybridism \-brə-ˌdi-zəm\ noun
" hybridity \hī-ˈbri-də-tē\ noun
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:55 PM   #12
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The Toyota Prius and the Honda civic hybrids work on the same basic principal, The motor charges the batteries, When speed is low the car runs on batteries, or under hard acceleration the batteries help the smaller gas motor bring the car up to speed. Due to the high cost of the batteries though it is not economically efficient, even though you get better gas mileage. It's just enviromentally efficient.(providing you can recycle the batteries at the end of their life)
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Old 02-27-2008, 01:13 PM   #13
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I tried to get Monaco to put this system on the 2008 Signature that I ordered and they refused. They said that they tried it on 8 coaches with only limited success.
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Old 02-29-2008, 04:07 PM   #14
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The rep in the Onan booth at the FMCA in Pomona just told me that it is in about 50 coaches thus far, and that they're working well. They have two sizes depending on electrical need (2 vs 3 A/C units, etc)

We'll be buying a 2011 full time coach, so hopefully they'll be all dialed in by then!
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