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Old 03-03-2014, 09:48 AM   #15
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I believe that your evauation of the number of people that have numerous problems, is at fault.

Also, some people complain about something that would take them just a few minutes to correct themselves, but would rather put the simple problem on a list.

A persons choice of Dealer is very, very, very, important. And ascertaining that the salesmen are RVers themselves, rather than just a salesman is wise.

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Old 03-03-2014, 09:49 AM   #16
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Hi and welcome to the forum.

Many here share your views but let's not call those who don't "crazy" or "dumb".

It is a sad state of affairs when we see these punch lists on new rigs but it's the same with nearly all manufacturers. I had the opportunity to spend a winter at a very upscale resort surrounded by million dollar coaches. They all had their share of issues too but Marathon would send a tech to the site to fix them.

I wish you luck in finding something which is acceptable to you.

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Old 03-03-2014, 09:51 AM   #17
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IMHO!! If you want every thing fixed before you leave, pack a lunch.
In most instances they won't be begin till you have signed, and then they don't care! Need to be like a dog with a bone.
Not like buying a car/truck.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:53 AM   #18
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I do not think you should even consider buying an RV. It will drive you crazy. I agree with all your comments BUT in the RV world for some reason we accept half assed work. I wish you the best and if you decide to buy an RV, especially a new one, advise your wife to leave home for at least 6 months because you will be stressed out. ALL THE BEST to you.
X2 need to stay in hotels.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:08 AM   #19
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You don't buy a car and take it back a month later and tell them everything they did wrong.
That does happen!
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You don't buy a house and tell them they forgot to paint a bedroom or put on a door...it just doesn't happen
There are almost always a few things the builder returns to repair ...that's why they provide a warranty.

I believe many dealerships do very poor pdi's, often because the sales staff knows little about/is not experienced with rv's, and too much of the service staff has also little experience or interest. Rigs sitting on display and at shows are abused by visitors who break or steal parts. And then too many new owners are in too big a hurry to hit the road, and fail to do a good pdi before signing/paying and driving away.

We did a thorough pdi before signing/paying for our mh and got a few things corrected immediately. Then we stayed in it/tested it thoroughly overnight at the dealership and got a couple more little things fixed/adjusted, missing coffee maker replaced, and questions answered the next day. And we stopped by the dealer a day or two after we took delivery to resolve a couple of additional problems we had found. Some of the items we found could have been found by any competent dealer employee who did a thorough inspection. Many other items required more first hand use than the normal inspection would have revealed ...just as I have experienced with new cars and homes.

Yes, there are some very poorly built rv's out there. I am sometimes shocked at what I see n casual observation at RV shows. But there are also well constructed rv's. And both extremes have little items that some lookie-loo (dealer employee OR prospective customer) has messed with and/or screwed up. If you do your homework, you can save a lot of time and effort in the final purchase process by focusing on the few manufacturers that you have come to trust for build quality and customer support. A good dealer is a helpful part of the process, but they aren't worth much if they don't have a quality product from a solid builder (and you cannot rely on THEM to tell you that!).
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by poppopc View Post
X2 need to stay in hotels.

It appears a lot of folks may be missing the essential premise of the OP. (Or maybe I am)

Everyone understands that with any significant construction transaction there will be a punch list. (Or if you don't, then this will be a good lesson) And it is up to the buyer to determine the content and the correction of the punch list that is developed.

The primary reason that many people will accept delivery before developing/addressing a punch list is emotion, the driving force behind most purchases.

Yes, we understand that for those that get the punch list addressed before delivery, there still are problems that will come up later on. That is presumably what a new warranty is designed to address.

Remember also......The quest for perfection is worthwhile. Expecting perfection is not something that learned, experienced people do.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ed-Sommers View Post
I believe that your evauation of the number of people that have numerous problems, is at fault.

Also, some people complain about something that would take them just a few minutes to correct themselves, but would rather put the simple problem on a list.

A persons choice of Dealer is very, very, very, important. And ascertaining that the salesmen are RVers themselves, rather than just a salesman is wise.

Ed
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:58 AM   #22
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Sozo,

Yes it is crazy! Go back 20 years and you'll still have the same type issues/problems. One would think nothing has improve in all that time. You'd be right.

What has changed is that as every industry has improved in quality, the RV industry is still stuck in the 50's/60's. Remember the days when you'd buy a brand new car and immediately have to either finish putting things together or repair items? While the auto industry has improved by leaps and bounds, the RV industry has not. It's all driven by costs and consumer expectations. Remember, an RV is built for around 25% MSRP - that's labor, materials and the rest. The rest of what you pay is profit to the manufacturer and various middlemen and your dealer. What they will stuggle with, is instead of the consumer attitudes of the previous generations of buyers, the new buyers coming up have, not only a raised expectation of quality, but of standing up for their rights as consumers too. You still have the pressure on price, as most of the new buyers cannot spring for the high dollar RV as many in the past might have.

So the advice to buy a slightly used RV is sound (as long as what you are buying is truley sorted, and not some lemon somebody has thrown in the towel on), it may be better advice to keep it simple.

Spending hundreds of thousands on the huge, shiny and complicated rig may not really bring you anymore happiness than the simple, lower dollar RV. Keep the number of systems down and you'll inevitably reduce the number of minor annoyances and the time and stress required to resolve them. Buyers are always lured in by all the bells and whistles. Then they complain about stuff breaking. They choose based on a great floorplan and ignore the mechanical foundation underneath - yet still complain it doesn't drive right and needs major modifications to make it safe and driveable.

The best though, is the guy who pays $350k plus and then complains about the gas mileage!

Oh well, what do I know? I've been advising people to buy trailers or buy smaller motorhomes as less costly, less complicated, and less to go wrong. But all in vain. The RV show I just went to was stuffed to the rafters with 40+ foot long 5th wheels, big shiny DP's and giant travel trailers. I guess sales of these things is still brisk.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
Sozo,

Yes it is crazy! Go back 20 years and you'll still have the same type issues/problems. One would think nothing has improve in all that time. You'd be right.

What has changed is that as every industry has improved in quality, the RV industry is still stuck in the 50's/60's. Remember the days when you'd buy a brand new car and immediately have to either finish putting things together or repair items? While the auto industry has improved by leaps and bounds, the RV industry has not. It's all driven by costs and consumer expectations. Remember, an RV is built for around 25% MSRP - that's labor, materials and the rest. The rest of what you pay is profit to the manufacturer and various middlemen and your dealer. What they will stuggle with, is instead of the consumer attitudes of the previous generations of buyers, the new buyers coming up have, not only a raised expectation of quality, but of standing up for their rights as consumers too. You still have the pressure on price, as most of the new buyers cannot spring for the high dollar RV as many in the past might have.

So the advice to buy a slightly used RV is sound (as long as what you are buying is truley sorted, and not some lemon somebody has thrown in the towel on), it may be better advice to keep it simple.

Spending hundreds of thousands on the huge, shiny and complicated rig may not really bring you anymore happiness than the simple, lower dollar RV. Keep the number of systems down and you'll inevitably reduce the number of minor annoyances and the time and stress required to resolve them. Buyers are always lured in by all the bells and whistles. Then they complain about stuff breaking. They choose based on a great floorplan and ignore the mechanical foundation underneath - yet still complain it doesn't drive right and needs major modifications to make it safe and driveable.

The best though, is the guy who pays $350k plus and then complains about the gas mileage!

Oh well, what do I know? I've been advising people to buy trailers or buy smaller motorhomes as less costly, less complicated, and less to go wrong. But all in vain. The RV show I just went to was stuffed to the rafters with 40+ foot long 5th wheels, big shiny DP's and giant travel trailers. I guess sales of these things is still brisk.

Kind of reminds me of the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink".
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:34 PM   #24
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What I found hilarious/scary at the show was over by the big busses. There was a 45' DP and the salesmen (2) actually picked up an old man (mid-eighties at least) out of his wheelchair (with his oxygen, no less) to put him behind the wheel of this monster. Granted, it was a beautiful coach, but really?
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:22 PM   #25
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You also have to remember there are a lot of people that own motorhomes and never have a problem too. It is not just the motorhomes that have problems. On my mothers
brand new home that was built they forgot to put in the insulation in the attic. Did not know it until she started to complain that it always felt hot in here house during the summer. On my 2011 Nissan I had to take it back when I bought it new on account of the AC would always default to 80 deg. when you shut it off. Bought a new television once from a store had to return it the next day on account of the little remote light on the front was not hooked up from the factory. So see it is just not a motorhome problem things happen live and learn.............Most people don't join a forum if that are not having problems............Just my opinion your mileage may vary........... Oh I almost forgot one....... 2011 Nissan again average MPG according to the sticker was suspose to be 25 MPG on average........... I guess I should have taken it back to see if something is wrong on account I get 35MPH on the average of city/interstate driving..........hmmmmmmmmmmmmm KJD
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:49 PM   #26
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Good luck to all of you. Meanwhile we sure enjoy our rig and do not worry about such things, I just fix them. I am retired and need a challenge to remain active.

On the analytically side, the complexity of the RV with all if its components would require lots more cost to build, similar to an airplane, to result in significantly fewer problems. Just accept it or stay in motels. In which case you will allow more room at camp sites for the rest of us.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:07 PM   #27
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I have a different view.....first off, I'm guessing that only about 1%-3% of the RVing public participate in these forums. In addition, many only come on here when they have an issue. So the alleged poor quality of RV's may be a little exaggerated.

I bought a brand new Monaco Diplomat in 2005. My first and only return for warranty work was a light that went out intermittently (bad ballast) and I wanted one slide adjusted tighter, about a 1/2". Over the years, other small things broke, but were not unusual.

Three weeks ago, we purchased a 2014 Newmar Dutch Star. We took it on our first trip and went through all of the systems over three days. I found the dash A/C blower motor had a bad bearing and squealed and one MCD shade was not wide enough for the window. We also did not like the quality of the microwave.

When we got home, I removed the blower motor and the dealer exchanged it for a new one. They ordered me a new MCD shade and I replaced the microwave with a new one (using my own money) and the dealer is giving me a refund for the one I removed.

My point...........many people will start a punch list with a screw loose in the wall of the bathroom, a shade that comes down too far, a picture frame that is crooked. They refuse to do anything minor and complain about everything. I do a little more in repairs myself than most are willing to, but I'm not a fan of leaving my coach at a dealer for repair.

We have a friend that bought a 40' Monaco....his nick name was Mr. Miserable and all he did was complain about every little noise and every rattle. As stated, these are houses rolling down the street. They are not built to the same tolerances as cars that are built by robots as many have become use to.

Lastly, I get tired of the guys that say they "don't buy depreciating assets" (yet they still buy the motor home). "I pay cash or I don't buy" (and their coach is a 1980 beater). And my favorite, I buy used to save the depreciation and let someone else work out the bugs. Really, your first choice in life is to buy used!
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by TexasTom View Post
It appears a lot of folks may be missing the essential premise of the OP. (Or maybe I am)

Everyone understands that with any significant construction transaction there will be a punch list. (Or if you don't, then this will be a good lesson) And it is up to the buyer to determine the content and the correction of the punch list that is developed.

The primary reason that many people will accept delivery before developing/addressing a punch list is emotion, the driving force behind most purchases.

Yes, we understand that for those that get the punch list addressed before delivery, there still are problems that will come up later on. That is presumably what a new warranty is designed to address.

Remember also......The quest for perfection is worthwhile. Expecting perfection is not something that learned, experienced people do.
Well said and point taken.

I think much of the divisiveness/confusion comes from the OP's stated position of not even considering a purchase from the vast majority of manufacturers because of what he considers completely unacceptable quality.

The quest for perfection is admirable but holding out until that perfection is realized can take some time so it might be a while before that perfect coach gets built.

The suggestions regarding a thorough PDI... spending the first couple of night in the new coach at the dealer's lot... and having issues fixed while you're still there are great ones. But things will still get discovered all along the way once hitting the road.

I hope he finds something he likes.

Rick
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