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Old 03-03-2014, 03:15 AM   #1
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Please Help Me Understand

I'm new to this motorhome thing and am really looking forward to the day when I finally have one. I've lurked on this site for over a year now and have read countless stories of people picking up new motorhomes with problems. I simply can't understand why all of you would be so willing to accept an RV with problems to then turn around weeks or month later and return your RV with a 2 page punch list. How did we get to a point where that is even acceptable?

I can tell you right now after reading about the various builders and the buyers with their punch lists there are very few coach builders I'd even consider buying from. I love the idea of traveling the globe but I'm not paying hundreds of thousand of dollars or more for a coach just to turn around and tell them what to fix a few months later. It's a brand new coach...nothing should be broken period.

Don't get me wrong, I understand adjust the doors or even the slides so everything closes properly and works as described but anything beyond that is unacceptable to me. You don't buy a car and take it back a month later and tell them everything they did wrong. You don't buy a house and tell them they forgot to paint a bedroom or put on a door...it just doesn't happen, so why is it that we've allowed that to be the case with our motorhomes?

What is even worse than the punch lists are people paying for the motorhomes before their even built and delivered. ARE YOU CRAZY? I'll be more than happy to put down a deposit but you're not getting final payment until I'm completely satisfied. Then again, I wouldn't drive an RV that has a punch list either.

Someone help me understand because reading these threads is crazy and I don't understand. I just read about a new owner who picked up his unit and his stairs don't work. Part of the coach isn't painted and lights don't work, not to mention the over 70 some odd items that he's found that need to be fixed. First, I never would have taken delivery but even worse was everyone telling him to be patient and that it gets better. How the hell is someone to be patient when they've just be handed a piece of junk. Debate with me all you want about it being junk or not but you can't tell me that's what he paid for. I don't know all the details of the sale but I feel for him...that said he's dumb for taken delivery and should do everything in his power, legal or otherwise to walk away. Any coach builder that would deliver a product like that should go out of business.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:01 AM   #2
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Your point is well taken and I don't have a good answer for you. We ordered and picked -up our 2014 WBGO last August. We have had few problems and after 4,500 miles we are still happy.

That said, a few years ago we had bad experiences with (three) TT's starting in 2010 and continuing until we got the WBGO.

Travel Trailers and that includes 5th wheels are built on the bare minimum of safety. The frames are thin and flexible. The tires and axles are just barely able to carry the intended load. Few have self-adjusting brakes and they are all drum style. For the most part they can just barely stop the units. WE WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER TT OF ANY SORT.

The MH industry has a frame made by a trucking company (Ford, Freight Liner, etc.). These companies are more tightly governed by the Federal government and have to meet standards. Their brakes have to pass DOT regulations. The frames and suspensions also have to meet certain safety and quality standards.

As far as a MH company doing poor quality building I agree. One should not accept or pay for something that is sub-standard. There are no real guarantees. A buyer has to do his homework and not accept the poor quality build. When more buyers do this maybe the industry or builder will improve. Word of mouth advertising is powerful and can and will effect the industry.

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Old 03-03-2014, 07:14 AM   #3
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Sozo,

In the perfect world you are correct, we should not have to take a unit back for repairs or adjustments. We would never have to take a tv, stero or any product we buy back for repair or replacement. We should be able to move into and brand new house or apartment building and not have to do or touch a thing repair or adjustment wise. But that does not happen.

You are building a house on a frame with wheels, then taking it down the highway with potholes that can damage a tire and rim. You are flexing a frame backing into places that maybe were not designed for a vehicle the size you are driving or towing. So things will get ripped loose and damaged, and shaken around. Should quality control be better during and after the unit is built? Yes. Should the items going into the units be made heavier and thicker? Maybe but this would mean a heavier unit and less fuel mileage and fewer places we could go.

The auto and truck industry is not perfect with there share of lemons or things that fail. If they were prefect the dealers would have just a showroom and and a oil change lane. They would not have repair shops.

We all hope that the builder of the motorhome or trailer used good quality products. Trained the workers on how best to install it and check it. When the unit is finished we how the builder checks the completed unit for problems and corrects them. The big thing is we hope the human that is checking it is doing his job, and doing it correctly. We all can do a good job or lets just do it and go home job. Thats the big problem.

After the factory is finished in most cases there is very little road test if any to shake things down. Most of the time the trip from the factory to the dealer is the road test. Then hopefully you have a good dealer and they do there job properly. Sometimes they only look at getting it washed and delivered and getting the check. They should be the ones looking for the little things and catching the loose and misfunctioning items. Also remember that do not make more money for dealer prep of a unit. That was already built in. They do make some money for repair and warranty work. So if you find things it becomes warranty and they get paid. After approval by the builder.

Just so you know I have been on both sides of this. Worked building, selling and repairing custom vehicles for fire, rescue and law inforcement. Also have purchased a new house, cars, trucks, travel trailers and 2 months ago a motorhome. And yes I made a list of things for each and every one of them with things that needed adjustment or repairs. Some of the things I asked how could you miss that and other things worked fine and failed after being used.

Nothing is built perfect but we can hope.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:55 AM   #4
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SOZO,

You will be better off buying a 2-3 year old RV.
It will have almost all the bugs in it fixed and the best of all the new deprecation hit was taken by the 1st owner.

I never had to take my 3 year old MH when bought, back to the selling dealer for any fixes.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:13 AM   #5
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I agree, although some want a coach that's never been lived in, I on the other hand didn't want to be hit with the depreciation, or having to take it back to a dealer or manufacturer. That's why I chose a used higher end motorhome that had all the bugs worked out almost 4yrs. ago. We've been fulltime ever since and the only major hiccup was a fuel pump that went bad. Other than that it's just been little things which are no different than when living in a house. You also have to consider that you're driving a traveling earthquake, that's why you have to look for quality over price.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:27 AM   #6
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:27 AM   #7
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Sozo
I believe you are have a pipe dream. This is not a perfect world we live in and bad things happen as well as good. The USA put people into space aboard vehicles that at times could not lift off because of problems caused by many ,many things. Many of them human error. Yet you expect perfection in the RV industry. Find a dealer/manufacture that backs their product and is willing to work through them in a business like approach and you will end with an RV that you like and enjoy.
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Old 03-03-2014, 08:42 AM   #8
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No matter what brand, no matter what it cost, it's still built with the cheapest labor and parts supplied by the cheapest bidder!
This is true with EVERYTHING from to cell phones to commerical jets.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sozo View Post
I'm new to this motorhome thing and am really looking forward to the day when I finally have one. I've lurked on this site for over a year now and have read countless stories of people picking up new motorhomes with problems. I simply can't understand why all of you would be so willing to accept an RV with problems to then turn around weeks or month later and return your RV with a 2 page punch list. How did we get to a point where that is even acceptable?

I can tell you right now after reading about the various builders and the buyers with their punch lists there are very few coach builders I'd even consider buying from. I love the idea of traveling the globe but I'm not paying hundreds of thousand of dollars or more for a coach just to turn around and tell them what to fix a few months later. It's a brand new coach...nothing should be broken period.

Don't get me wrong, I understand adjust the doors or even the slides so everything closes properly and works as described but anything beyond that is unacceptable to me. You don't buy a car and take it back a month later and tell them everything they did wrong. You don't buy a house and tell them they forgot to paint a bedroom or put on a door...it just doesn't happen, so why is it that we've allowed that to be the case with our motorhomes?

What is even worse than the punch lists are people paying for the motorhomes before their even built and delivered. ARE YOU CRAZY? I'll be more than happy to put down a deposit but you're not getting final payment until I'm completely satisfied. Then again, I wouldn't drive an RV that has a punch list either.

Someone help me understand because reading these threads is crazy and I don't understand. I just read about a new owner who picked up his unit and his stairs don't work. Part of the coach isn't painted and lights don't work, not to mention the over 70 some odd items that he's found that need to be fixed. First, I never would have taken delivery but even worse was everyone telling him to be patient and that it gets better. How the hell is someone to be patient when they've just be handed a piece of junk. Debate with me all you want about it being junk or not but you can't tell me that's what he paid for. I don't know all the details of the sale but I feel for him...that said he's dumb for taken delivery and should do everything in his power, legal or otherwise to walk away. Any coach builder that would deliver a product like that should go out of business.
I agree 200% but until and only until the "buying public" holds the manufacturers accountable , it's not going to change. A few things will pop up cause we don't live in a perfect world as some have said but to have 70+ items that need correcting in a new rv is unacceptable. I would have walked away and told them to call when the problems have been corrected. I also would not pay for a new unit in full until it was built/delivered in acceptable working order. Down payment yes, but no more or I simply don't buy. If they require that kind of money up front, I would be suspect of the overall financial health of the company/dealer itself and would most likely go elsewhere. The purchase of a pre-owned unit is still usually attractive as most of the bugs from crappy workmanship have been fixed. Unfortunately the pull of a new smelling unit can prevail allowing caution to be thrown to the wind and result in the manufacturers being further rewarded for producing crap.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:13 AM   #10
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Also on these RV forums we often hear only of the problems. Once in awhile you hear folks that love their moho's and have had no problems.But there are a lot of moho's out there that have had nothing major go wrong. I'm on car forums also that if you read some of the problems these people had with a certain brand you would think "why would people buy such a car" But again people usually write when things are going bad, not when everything is operating good..Many Rv are out there that have had no problems what so ever.....Yet
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:28 AM   #11
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New Coach Woes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sozo View Post
I'm new to this motorhome thing and... ARE YOU CRAZY?
The Catch 22 is, you can't get a coach builder to agree to terms that would give buyers that degree of safety. The people who point to the complexity of these things are spot-on. Further, the coach builder assembles parts from a variety of suppliers, piles them into a structure the builder usually has built atop a chassis/drivetrain combo supplied by yet another vendor... Any RV manufacturer who'd provide warranty protection on the order of Toyota or Honda would either price itself out of business or die by a thousand cuts after the sale.

So, new coach buyers seem relegated to both steep depreciation and many visits to the factory. But, in return, they get assurances that no one else has used their rig; and, it smells like a new car. Lots of owners find that arrangement satisfactory, fulfilling. Heck, if either Middlebury, Indiana or Red Bay, Alabama were my hometown, I might give consideration to owning a new RV myself.*

Anyway, blessed are those who buy new. In fact, I hope to buy a rig from one again, some day. For me, the trick is finding a new-rig purchaser who doesn't reside in his/her RV full time, who does (or, has done) all the recommended maintenance and driven the rig every few weeks. No, mileage doesn't matter. Steady use and maintenance is the key. Of course, damage, smoking and leakage are deal-breakers IMHO.

*Aside from the fact that, for the price of my 45' tag-axle behemoth with Aqua Hot, faux leather, Canadian burled cabinetry, 400 sq ft of patio living, a 763 cu in engine that gobbles diesel at a breathtaking rate, I could barely afford an entry-level 40' Class A DP.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:29 AM   #12
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We have purchased 4 late model coaches , all were used, we had a television fail also a refrigator problem both were fixed by the appliance manufacture. Never had to return to a dealerfor anything.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:32 AM   #13
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Its sort like asking a hunter how he can get up at 4:00am, sit in the woods at 22 for hours freezing, wet and miserable and see no game but keep doing it day after day. Or a fisherman. Or a antiques hunter. Or a kindergarten teacher.
We all have a certain level of tolerance for discomfort when doing something we are passionate about.
Me, I can't understand why someone would pay to sit in a rowdy crowd watching loud cars go round and round but NASCAR has millions of followers. Maybe RV travel inst for you if you demand perfection. Maybe airline or train travel would be better. Yeah, right. Lol. See it you can rent a class c and give RV travel a try. But be warned... its addictive!
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:45 AM   #14
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I do not think you should even consider buying an RV. It will drive you crazy. I agree with all your comments BUT in the RV world for some reason we accept half assed work. I wish you the best and if you decide to buy an RV, especially a new one, advise your wife to leave home for at least 6 months because you will be stressed out. ALL THE BEST to you.
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