Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > MH-General Discussions & Problems
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-17-2013, 09:39 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
Shore Power GFI Tripping

I'll try to keep this simple.

MH has a 50 amp Surge Guard hard wired.

I have it plugged into my storage 20A service via 50-30 then 30-20 converters. This was used with my previous Winnebago with a hard wired PI 50 surge protector.

When I brought the DSPD "home" and plugged it in to keep the batteries charged the SG did it's normal 1 minute delay then allowed the shore power to the coach. Almost immediately after that the shore GFI popped.

Long story short is that to trouble shoot the problem I turned off all breakers in the coach and tried again. No problem. 1 by 1 I added new circuits and loaded them as much as I could and didn't have a problem until I brought the refer circuit up. POP goes the SHORE POWER GFI. HMMM.

I then pulled the ice maker and refer plugs. Reset GFI and plugged in refer...GOOD. Plugged in ice maker...POP!

I have now isolated the problem specifically to the ice maker. BTW...when we had it running on the generator with the ice maker plugged in, it didn't trip a breaker.

So, for the life of me I can not figure out why it is tripping the shore power GFI but not tripping a breaker.

At least it is a simple answer for now...don't use the ice maker. I can live with that.

Any thoughts?
__________________

__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-17-2013, 10:01 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
HHIDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,254
I think this is the repair manual for your refrigerator:
http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/ncold1200.pdf
Page 59 thru almost the end covers the ice maker with some good troubleshooting tips. There are two valves/solenoids one for water fill and one for eject, one of them looks to be leaking current to gnd (ground fault). The leak can be very minimal befor any GFI will trip.
Good troubleshooting, at least you're very close to the fault. Worst case is a new ice maker and even worst is no more ice for the 4pm beverages...
__________________

__________________
DanielB
'06 Mountain Aire 4309, ISL 400-CM850, Spartan MMGT
'16 Jeep Wrangler
HHIDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 01:20 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
vermilye's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oswego, NY
Posts: 380
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to vermilye
All it takes is more than 5ma (.005 amps) between either hot & ground or neutral & ground to trip a GFCI. It tales a fault of 15 or 20 amps to trip a breaker. As Daniel states, I suspect you have a ground fault with your ice maker...
vermilye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Jimooo's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Amite, La.
Posts: 289
Make sure that your wires aren't shorting out in the connector to your ice maker .

I think that on gen power your ground fault is not powered up it is not needed.
__________________
Jimooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 04:12 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
palehorse89's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,737
Plug it into a non-gfi outlet or just change your outlet to a normal one and your problems will go away. A gfi is looking for a inbalance between the hot and neutral and you might just be getting enough of a inbalance to trip it. Just try another outlet and see.
__________________
2000 Newmar MADP 4060, 350ISC, Spartan MM, IFS 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006Ultra & 1989 Springer
palehorse89 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 05:05 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Walnut Creek Ca USA
Posts: 641
As was said by another poster in this tread that a GFCI takes a very small leak to ground to trip. A breaker wont even see .005 amps leak. I had a GFCI in my kitchen that was constantly tripping. I finally got around to tracing out the circuit and found an outdoor outlet that served a sprinkler timer inside a plastic box. I tested it by removing the timer from the circuit. The GFCI still tripped. In desperation, I pulled the duplex outlet ( it came from China and was already installed in a sprinkler box) and with a VOM found a whisper short (5,000 Ohm) to ground leak in the outlet. Turned out the duplex outlet was made in China also and I find many duplex outlets in motor homes and trailers that use similar cheap Chinese made pieces of crap outlets. I have said it before but I wouldn't use a non underwriters lab approved outlet in my house and I wouldn't use one in my trailer. Try replacing that fridge outlet with a decent underwriters approved outlet. Your troubles may go away.
On another note people plugging a 1500 watt heater into one of those crap outlets are asking for a fire. If you saw inside how poorly they are made with no screw lugs or anything other then a bent plated piece of steel to make connections, You too would see they are dangerous. Look in your trailer for cheap Chinese made outlets... if you find them, Replace them immediately and write your manufacturers and tell them you will tell all your friends that they save a dollar a rig and put you and your family at risk.
Homes built in the US require by code an underwriters approved duplex outlet in any box. Why do trailers use inferior Chinese outlets when a sticks and bricks home built here can not use them? There are few codes protecting you from unscrupulous trailer builders and they save a dollar a trailer.
-Paul R. Haller-
__________________
Paul R. Haller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 05:27 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
HHIDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89 View Post
Plug it into a non-gfi outlet or just change your outlet to a normal one and your problems will go away.
Sorry, but I disagree. A current leak is an accident waiting to happen. The leak will eventually find its way thru your body. GFI are a must around water (ice maker inlcuded) and most applications outdoors. The OP has done good troubleshooting, he's very close to the fault. Better fix it.
On an aside, I found out over the holidays that an electrician working on a live plug would be fined $5,000. if caught. (Ontario, Canada)
On one more aside, the other day my Water Pik sprayed just a little water on the GFI near by and it immediately tripped....
__________________
DanielB
'06 Mountain Aire 4309, ISL 400-CM850, Spartan MMGT
'16 Jeep Wrangler
HHIDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 05:31 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
palehorse89's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBeauchamp View Post
Sorry, but I disagree. A current leak is an accident waiting to happen. The leak will eventually find its way thru your body. GFI are a must around water (ice maker inlcuded) and most applications outdoors. The OP has done good troubleshooting, he's very close to the fault. Better fix it.
On an aside, I found out over the holidays that an electrician working on a live plug would be fined $5,000. if caught. (Ontario, Canada)
On one more aside, the other day my Water Pik sprayed just a little water on the GFI near by and it immediately tripped....
My post was based on the op stated that his shore power was pluged into a gfi. I agree that the ice maker need to be on one but not the Coach's shore power.
__________________
2000 Newmar MADP 4060, 350ISC, Spartan MM, IFS 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006Ultra & 1989 Springer
palehorse89 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 08:06 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Sky_Boss's Avatar


 
Newmar Owners Club
Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ON THE ROAD...SOMEWHERE
Posts: 6,069
All great help folks.

A few points/thoughts.

1. I don't control the issue regarding the GFI on the shore power outlet. Also...the door to my storage lets water in and that water stand directly under the GFI outlet. Again, it is the shore power GFI that is popping.

2. There is no GFI for the refer/ice maker on the MH. I have been told that in S&B home applications GFI should not be used on residential refers because the initial power draw of the compressor can trip GFIs. Now, I don't have a residential refer in the MH so I'm not sure how that plays. I have the Norcold 1200LRM but maybe not for long.

3. The refer plug in my Winnebago did NOT have a GFI either.

I plan to leave the ice maker unplugged until the weather warms up and I can work on it. I'll look at the schematics and see if I can trace any current leaks. My first guess based on the comments made is to start with the solenoid assembly. It might be easier to go ahead and replace it if it isn't too expensive. I also see in the manual the steps to actually test out the ice maker itself. That shouldn't be too difficult either. Until then, I have lots of other stuff I can do to get my new rig in fighting shape.
__________________
Don, Sandee & GSD Zeus. Guardian GSDs Gunny (7/11/15) & Thor (5/5/15)
2006 DSDP 4320, Spartan MM IFS, 2013 CR-V, Blue Ox Avail, SMI AF1, Samsung 197R Refer.
Sky_Boss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 2,281
Some surge protectors will trip the GFI - especially if they are the EMS type. My Progressive EMS will reliably trip the garage GFI outlet. I just plug it into a non-GFI and everything is fine.

Someone else can give you the technical reasons for this but I believe it has to do with the MH having a floating ground.
__________________
Roger & Mary
2017 Winnebago Navion 24V
2014 Tiffin Phaeton 36GH (Sold)
luvlabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 09:54 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
CampDaven's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Fulltime, USA
Posts: 14,458
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvlabs View Post
Some surge protectors will trip the GFI - especially if they are the EMS type. My Progressive EMS will reliably trip the garage GFI outlet. I just plug it into a non-GFI and everything is fine.

Someone else can give you the technical reasons for this but I believe it has to do with the MH having a floating ground.
True, in my experience. I also had where one GFI would trip but not another. Replaced. All good!
__________________
Dave and Nola, RVM1
The Journey is Our Destination!

http://davenola.blogspot.com/
CampDaven is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2013, 10:16 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
HHIDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvlabs View Post
Some surge protectors will trip the GFI - especially if they are the EMS type. My Progressive EMS will reliably trip the garage GFI outlet. I just plug it into a non-GFI and everything is fine.

Someone else can give you the technical reasons for this but I believe it has to do with the MH having a floating ground.
Hate to challenge but are you sure it's the surge protector that trips your GFI?
An electric lawn mower has a floating ground also and it is not supposed to trip the GFI, unless it's defective so, unless there is something wrong in your RV, which may or may not cause injury, your RV should not trip a GFI.
AC current is really quite simple, the current going out on the black wire should be exactly the same as the current returning on the white neutral. As soon as there is around .005 amps difference (5 milliamps) the GFI trips. GFIs have nothing to do with the quantity of current, they measure the difference in current between black and white. If the currents are not the same then you have a leak (ground fault) which means current is going in the ground thru another path. If your fingers or any other part of your body comes in contact with anything in that path (which is typically not protected) then you are creating yet another path which will either give you a tingle or a deadly shock.
The OP is lucky that he was using a GFI plug which allowed him to determine there was something wrong in the coach. With a little troubleshooting he has found that it's in the refrigerator somewhere there is a fault. We all know how many connections there are in an RV, a GFI helps you determine one is loose (arcing) or one is shorting...
JMHO. Stay safe.
__________________
DanielB
'06 Mountain Aire 4309, ISL 400-CM850, Spartan MMGT
'16 Jeep Wrangler
HHIDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 2,281
DanielB,

The instructions that came with my Progressive EMS0-HW50C said not to plug it into GFI circuits because it would trip the GFI. This was six years ago when I installed one in my fifth wheel.

I installed a new unit when I got my motorhome but I have not bothered to try and plug it into my garage GFI because of my previous experience. There is no mention of this in the current instructions so I guess I'll give it a try next time the motorhome is home.
__________________
Roger & Mary
2017 Winnebago Navion 24V
2014 Tiffin Phaeton 36GH (Sold)
luvlabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2013, 10:40 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 44
Replace the gfi at the icemaker that corrected my problem and I have Hwh 50 amp surge protector on my coach no further problems
__________________

__________________
jerryjoe55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
power



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.