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Old 08-07-2014, 08:59 PM   #71
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So, are we driving too slow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight View Post
We're not talking about speeders. The actual issue is when people drive far below the posted limit thus causing a dangerous situation....

I'm not saying anyone is a bad person, I am saying that maybe minds need to open up some and acknowledge that yes, there could be substance to this.

Well, now that you have opened your mind....

There is a way that would solve this issue, as well multiple other issues, and truly make the roads safer....

Lower the speed limits versus making everyone go faster!

If the speed limit was 60, most people could travel at an average speed of 60. Some would go faster, but not the majority, some would go a little slower, but most people would be able to stay with the main traffic flow.


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Old 08-07-2014, 09:10 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedgard01 View Post


Well, now that you have opened your mind....

There are solutions that would solve this issue, as well multiple other issues, and truly make the roads safer....

Lower the speed limits versus making everyone go faster!

If the speed limit was 60, most people could travel at an average speed of 60. Some would go faster, but not the majority, some would go a little slower, but most people would be able to stay with the main traffic flow.


Ted
There's many solutions. How about you stick to state highways and leave interstates to those willing to go near the posted limit? The limits there are usually 55, less traffic, less stress.

They're more scenic too.

The PDF I posted talks about lowering speed limits, specifically the 1974 change to 55MPH nationwide. They claimed a 16% decrease in fatalities, though they admit that those numbers are impossible to actually pin down.

But in 1987 when the federal DOT turned speed limits over to the states the increase in injuries and deaths didn't grow by 16%. It increased, you're going to get hurt worse when you go faster, but not by 16%. But in some states it dropped.

You'll have to take my word for it, my mind is wide open. I'm doing research and posting my findings which includes some info to the contrary.

I'm not the one saying over and over I'll do as I wish without considering that this information could actually be correct.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:20 PM   #73
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So, are we driving too slow?

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Originally Posted by sknight View Post
There's many solutions. How about you stick to state highways and leave interstates to those willing to go near the posted limit? those limits are usually 55, less traffic, less stress.
....
You'll have to take my word for it, my mind is wide open.

I'm not the one saying over and over I'll do as I wish without considering that this information could actually be correct.

Well, I will continue to use the interstates... I am not simply going to take your word for it at all... And frankly, the thesis is so flawed, that it is not worth making it an issue.

You can drive faster than what is safe, just like many others do, I will not. The truth is that the higher the speed you are driving, the worse damage will be caused when you get into an accident. It is also true that those that drive faster cause more accidents then those that drive conservatively and a safe speed in relation to the length and weight of an RV versus the weight and length of a standard car.

Therefore, if you want to drive faster, you are taking far more risk than I am.


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Old 08-07-2014, 09:30 PM   #74
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And frankly, your thesis is so flawed, it is not worth making it an issue.

You can drive faster than what is safe, just like many others do, I will not. The truth is that the higher the speed you are driving, the worse damage will be caused when you get into an accident. It is also true that those that drive faster cause more accidents then those that drive conservatively and a more safe speed. Therefore, if you want to drive faster, you are taking far more risk than I am.


Ted
Prove it. I have studies backed up by the NHTSA. All I ask. Until then, you're crossing your arms saying I'm safer I'm safer.

A large speed differential is less safe than going close to the flow of traffic. Solomon postulated that in 1964, most studies today and as recent as 2005 back it up.

If you have nothing in the way of proof, then I will not continue this conversation with you.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:37 PM   #75
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So, are we driving too slow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight View Post
Prove it. I have studies backed up by the NHTSA. All I ask. Until then, you're crossing your arms saying I'm safer I'm safer.

A large speed differential is less safe than going close to the flow of traffic. Solomon postulated that in 1964, most studies today and as recent as 2005 back it up.

If you have nothing in the way of proof, then I will not continue this conversation with you.

Sorry, I am letting this drop now. I don't feel the need to prove anything, that is your need as your thesis is the one that does not hold to reality.

Enjoy you're attempt to make your point that we should all be speeding, simply because it would make it safer for other speeders....

I hope you never get into an accident. I know that my chances of getting into one is going to be far less than you, so I'll trust me to do the correct thing.

Ted
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:59 PM   #76
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Sorry, I am letting this drop now. I don't feel the need to prove anything, that is your need as your thesis is the one that does not hold to reality.

Enjoy you're attempt to make your point that we should all be speeding, simply because it would make it safer for other speeders....

I hope you never get into an accident. I know that my chances of getting into one is going to be far less than you, so I'll trust me to do the correct thing.

Ted
Let it drop, frankly you simply can't prove otherwise.

And please read what I write. At what point did I say anything about us speeding? I have said nothing of the sort. It would be safer if we all went 30MPH, did you know that? By that reasoning you're speeding because by admission you're going nearly twice as fast, thus are twice as likely to be involved in an accident. Or why not go the posted minimum speed, which in Georgia is 45?

It's proven, traffic flows better and is safer when it all runs a similar relative speed. The limits are what they are, all I can say to that is write your state representative, get them to lower the limit.

I've been involved in five accidents. Two were my flat out my fault, one, I was a stupid teenager and I popped a phone pole. The other, on a motorcycle and I outrode my headlight on a road I didn't know in the dark. A turn sharper than I could handle, while going less than the limit mind you, appeared and got me. I slowed down because it didn't look right, I just didn't slow down enough.

I was rearended once and I have hit two deer. Both of those were while going at or under the limit.

I drive 60,000 miles a year for my job, have gotten three speeding tickets in my driving career. I know, 26 years isn't a lot compared to some, but considering the miles I've traveled, it's not bad. Never so much as used a radar detector either.

I'll keep flowing with traffic and I'll pray for you because I know that while you're going slower, statistically you're more likely to get tangled up in or cause an accident.
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:05 PM   #77
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:20 PM   #78
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....I'll pray for you....

Wow, you are too kind.

When I was your age, I got into an accident. I was on a motorcycle an an 84 yr old guy pulled out directly into me... I am lucky I learned my lesson to drive defensively... I am lucky to have prevented all the rest of them by doing that...

I'm going to wish you the best as well.


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Old 08-07-2014, 10:23 PM   #79
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Speed limit + 5

I seem to stay with the a good chunk of the 4 wheelers, pass a good chunk of professional drivers, and pass almost every other RV.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:24 PM   #80
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So, are we driving too slow?

Well, gee whiz boys and girls, now that you've spent a whole week with lots of harumphing and pumping the notion that legislated posted speed limits are the unequivocal definition of "safe speed", I will refer you back to my post number 5, and suggest that you google the terms "highway design" and "85th percentile speed". Don't spend too much time there, maybe just a few minutes-- you wouldn't want to run the risk of learning something new and different.


Quick question: you have 100 vehicles on a section of highway moving in the same direction, with 15 doing 50, 20 doing 60, 30 doing 70, 20 doing 75, and 15 doing 80, all mixed up together; on a parallel highway you have another hundred vehicles, all traveling at exactly the same speed in their lanes with cruise controls locked on 75. All other factors being equal, on which highway is there more likely to be a collision?

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Old 08-08-2014, 12:13 AM   #81
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I'm with Ted on this one.
I can easily say I'm not as young as I once was. My repsonse times and reflexes are not what they used to be. I gave up riding motorcycles because my reaction times are much slower now that they used to be. I tend to think other drivers & pedrestrians are probably safer if I'm holding my speeds to less than 65mph out on the highway. Yes, I'm in the slow lane and when on secondary highways I pull off to let others pass. You can keep me off interstates if you can get the "authorities" to post minimum speed of 65 mph.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:52 AM   #82
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I believe I've read every post in this thread and still haven't seen my favorite quote on this issue:

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"
George Carlin

Quite fitting for this discussion... don't you think? Safe travels everyone!
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:53 AM   #83
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Quote:
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And please read what I write. At what point did I say anything about us speeding? I have said nothing of the sort. It would be safer if we all went 30MPH, did you know that? By that reasoning you're speeding because by admission you're going nearly twice as fast, thus are twice as likely to be involved in an accident. Or why not go the posted minimum speed, which in Georgia is 45?
Well actually you have.

"We're not talking about speeders. The actual issue is when people drive far below the posted limit thus causing a dangerous situation. Traffic regularly flows 5MPH over the limit I don't care if it's 25 or 75. There will always be the 10 over crowd, and there's always that guy pulling down 20 over. Everybody hates him. But the average is around 5MPH over."

Although 5mph is really nothing to get excited about, it is speeding.

So on balance, do you believe that there is a greater % of people driving significantly under the speed limit so as to be a danger to traffic or a greater percentage of people driving significantly over the posted limit so as to be a danger to other traffic?

Statistics showed in 2009 that approximately 20% of drivers were exceeding posted speed limits by greater that 10 mph. 45% by 5 to 10 mph and a whopping 71 percent were speeding 0-5 mph. If a 15 mph hour differential is critical in affecting traffic safety, I would respectfully suggest that the bigger problem is created by the majority of drivers who are speeding at least part of the time. I say this because in 20% of states (and I put RV's in this category) trucks have a slower posted limit. If a truck is driving the posted limit which is 10 mph slower than for cars. Then that means 71 % of car drivers are close to if not exceeding that 15mph speed difference by virtue of their speeding.

Furthermore "too slow" is very poorly defined. If there is a posted minimum, then of course, drivers need to achieve that mark. If not, in many instances it becomes much more a judgment issue. Judgment based on conditions, type of vehicle, ability to let traffic pass and so on. In many cases, a too slow violation is given because someone is:

A. driving in the overtaking lane for no good reason (turning left would be a good reason)
B. failing to let faster traffic pass by using designated pull outs

To be sure, driving too slow can certainly result in unsafe conditions and accidents but where is the proof that these are more common and dangerous than accidents caused by excessive speed? 55 mph is certainly a reasonable speed for many RV's. 60 if conditions are good and some newer rigs are good at 65 and maybe even higher. A brief survey of threads showed that most RV's admit to going no slower than 55 and most around the 60 mark or a little above. As mentioned earlier, these units are heavier, less maneuverable, harder to stop and much more subject to unseen hazards such as wind gusts. They are different vehicles that require different driving behaviors. If you want to make a case that they shouldn't be on certain roads because they are inherently too slow...well, that isn't going to go too far.

At the end the day, RV's are involved in far fewer traffic fatalities than your standard auto and on balance would put my faith far more in the statistically safer group. I would put most RV drivers in the highly conscientious group. That is doing their best not to inconvenience those trying to go faster and/or driving in such a way as to create hazardous conditions. But as an RV'r, I will draw the line at having someone in a Volkswagon try to dictate how fast I should drive an 11000 kg RV with awesome destruction potential if I do the job badly. If I am going 10-15 mph below the limit, there is probably a good reason for it and it is my own council I will take until someone who is entitled to tell me to do otherwise does.
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:43 AM   #84
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You guys have convinced me. Way too dangerous out there. I am staying home.

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